Developer meeting July 2013
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Developer meetings > July 2013 meeting notes
| Time | 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 30 July 2013 |
| Meeting room | Moodle YouTube channel |
| Chat | Regular Dev chat |
| #moodledev |
In this meeting we focused on Moodle development happening outside Moodle HQ.
Meeting video
<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9H4JgybZWc</mediaplayer>
Meeting notes
Form mock-submit (Jamie Pratt)
- The Data generator was being used for testing quizzes, however there needed to be a way to check that creation of questions from forms as if they'd been submitted by a user.
- Mock form submission works by injecting data into the POST data.
- This works at a lower level than Behat tests.
- It is now possible to test form validation in unit tests.
GSoC
- Midway through this year's GSoC. Mid-term evaluations going in now.
- All projects are proceeding except one.
- Requests for testers of project code should be coming soon. Keep an eye on GSoC project pages.
Backup improvements
- Fileless backups are now used when importing content from one course to another.
- Backup is still an issue with big RAM usage.
- The OU wants to add progress indicators during backups to prevent browser time-outs.
- Russell Smith has introduced some performance improvements that are, among other things, speeding up backups by as much as 25%.
Accessibility push (Martin Dougiamas)
- A number of big collections of issues have been reported that came form accessibility reviews.
- About half of these issues were done in January, but a remaining few are not yet complete.
- Some people are wanting the accessibility work to be completed and threatening not to support Moodle otherwise.
- FRONTEND team working on a chunk but more help is needed.
Server clustering (Petr Skoda)
- A new localcachedir has been introduced.
- There is an ongoing meeting happening on Wednesdays at 2pm (Perth time) about clustering.
Patched issues, peer reviewing and the Peer review dashboard (Michael de Raadt)
- With the welcomed contribution of more developers, bottlenecks have been developing in the integration process around peer reviews.
- Recognised developers are asked to consider looking at issues with patches and pushing them through the process.
- Developers asking for peer reviews are asked to consider reciprocating by peer reviewing of other issues waiting. Issues can be found on the Peer review dashboard and the Peer review checklist should be followed.
Epics, issues and sub-tasks (Michael de Raadt)
When grouping issues together:
- use epics to group existing issues into a common project (this allows individual ranking and implementation), and
- use sub-tasks to break a single issue into chunks of work (that can be worked on at the same time).
Moodle 2.6 progress
Mobile device improvements and support (FRONTEND)
- The FRONTEND team did a lot of exploratory work with mobile devices, raised a lot of issues and have worked on many.
- Full-screen pop-ups are now used for dialogues at small screen sizes.
- TinyMCE improvements have been made for resizing, so it can now shrink; there are reduced toolbars starting with a single bar that can be toggled to three bars.
- Reducing the number of activities next to each other on the course page into a menu of editing icons.
Automatic class loading (Petr Skoda)
- "You will love it, it just works."
- Put the class in the right place and you can use the class without explicitly including files.
- Reduces memory usage by including only necessary classes.
- Allows shortcuts in unit tests.
Events and logging (BACKEND)
- The old events system was simple, but didn't follow rules.
- The new system is class based.
- It allows listening by handlers.
- Logging can be handled by handlers.
- Logging spec is being finalised.
Alternate names fields and how to output names (Adrian Greeve)
- We now have additional name fields, which is particularly useful for non-Romanic languages.
- The name display setting has moved and allows flexible description of names using place-holders.
- Developers outputting names need to ensure that name fields are passed to the fullname function.
- Use the get_all_user_name_fields() or user_picture::fields() functions to get these fields.
Other news
- The meeting time for this General Developer meeting will remain static. After attempting to rotate times, this timeslot was found to be the least objectionable. Also, now that we have reliable recordings, having we felt it was possible to have a constant time. Apologies to anyone adversely affected.
- After delaying the Hack-a-thon twice, we have decided it will be cancelled. While there was some interest, the effort needed to run the Hack-a-thon appeared greater than the benefits that would be gained, and we are all quite busy.
Some questions
- What is Moodle HQ stand on supporting metadata for Course(s), Resources and Activities (Moodle HUB?) MDL_34634 Enabling OAI-PMH Harvesters to catalog metadata of resource off a Moodle system (Moodle HUB?)
- LTI has some. Worth looking at the Global Search project.
- What is Moodle HQ stand on: Experience API (TINCAN API), CMI-5, implementing LTI (v2), future of SCORM ?
- SCORM 2004 = no (still using SCORM 1.2), LTIv2 = when it comes (MoodleRooms), TINCAN = through events/logging APIs, but no foreseeable use yet
- Is theme/clean the new standard theme for a new Moodle install? (Are we deprecating all other themes?)
- Not yet, but we want it to be. No plans to deprecate old themes.
Attendees
Amanda Doughty, Andrew Nicols, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Marsden, Dan Poltawski, Daniele Cordella, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jamie Pratt, Jason Fowler, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Julian Ridden, Luke Carrier, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Martin Dougiamas, Mark Johnson, Matthew Spurrier, Michael Aherne, Michael Blake, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Nadav Kavalerchik, Peter Bulmer, Petr Škoda, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kablan, Russel Smith, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshal, Stephen Bourget, Shane Elliott, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, Yairspi... (plus many more via YouTube and Twitter)
Meeting chat log
| Tomasz Muras | Hello everyone | 8:27:00 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | is anyone listening to youtube here as well? | 8:28:47 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | listening to youtube? | 8:30:54 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | to the hangout video | 8:31:25 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | It hasn't started yet | 8:31:32 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Morning Sam | 8:46:51 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Morning | 8:47:09 PM |
| Helen Foster | wow Sam, you're up early! | 8:47:22 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | I know! :D (im not an early morning person aye) | 8:47:51 PM |
| Helen Foster | or did you just not go to bed last night? | 8:48:10 PM |
| Petr Škoda | Good afternoon! | 8:48:23 PM |
| Jamie Pratt | hi all | 8:48:39 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Hi. | 8:49:12 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | I've had an hours sleep. I did that horrible little "airport" sleep where you want to sleep but you know you've got to get up soon | 8:49:17 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Hi all | 8:52:37 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | martin is just googling how to start a hangout... | 8:54:25 PM |
| Moodle HQ | https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7b562fa4854bfcc37850484afa21d3dfa484771e | 8:55:10 PM |
| Moodle Bot | http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/7b562fa4854bfcc37850484afa21d3dfa484771e - () Unknown. | 8:55:10 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | That's the link to take part on video | 8:55:32 PM |
| Moodle HQ | yes it is | 8:55:46 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | And there's a maxium number of people taking part | 8:55:50 PM |
| Moodle HQ | so anyone speaking get on there | 8:55:54 PM |
| lukecarrier | hangouts on air stream is here: | 8:55:57 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols gets off | 8:55:58 PM |
| Moodle HQ | yeah prolly | 8:56:06 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Is there an agenda for this meeting somewhere? | 8:56:56 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_July_2013 | 8:57:02 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Aha cool thanks Andrew | 8:58:21 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | thanks | 8:58:27 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Can other people view the YouTube stream? | 9:01:47 PM |
| Rajesh Taneja | no | 9:01:51 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | not yet | 9:01:51 PM |
| bmbrands | Hi All | 9:01:58 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | K thanks | 9:01:59 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | They were a kickstart project weren't they? | 9:02:37 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | starting now | 9:03:02 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Stream | 9:03:39 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | cool, I'll add that theme to moosh for generate-theme command | 9:04:01 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Just so you know ,there's quite a lag | 9:04:12 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | there must be, yeah | 9:04:26 PM |
| Moodle HQ | 3 | 9:04:30 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | There stream is coming through | 9:04:35 PM |
| Rajesh Taneja | It is | 9:04:39 PM |
| Davo Smith | all visible here | 9:04:40 PM |
| David Mudrák | moodle Meetings: Hi Robot! | 9:04:41 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | but there's probably a 10-20 second lag | 9:04:43 PM |
| sbourget | It's working here | 9:04:46 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Massive | 9:04:47 PM |
| bmbrands | 3 | 9:05:01 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | 3 | 9:05:01 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Its working now | 9:05:05 PM |
| Tim Hunt | 1 | 9:05:09 PM |
| Tim Hunt | 2 | 9:05:10 PM |
| Tim Hunt | 3 | 9:05:12 PM |
| Amanda Doughty | 3 | 9:05:14 PM |
| lukecarrier | 3 | 9:05:16 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | 3 | 9:05:18 PM |
| Marina Glancy | twice | 9:05:21 PM |
| Moodle HQ | wow that's a minute nearly | 9:05:39 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | 3 | 9:05:40 PM |
| David Mudrák | Say and type "NOW" at the same moment | 9:05:40 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Who is hiding off-screen on the right? | 9:05:45 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Lead us off Jamie | 9:05:49 PM |
| David Mudrák | Michael d looks like a real pilot | 9:06:01 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Adrian is off screen | 9:06:05 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Reload the agenda, I just added an item. | 9:06:17 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | it's not changing away from HQ as full screen | 9:06:33 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Hi all. | 9:06:34 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 | 9:09:28 PM |
| Tim Hunt | MDL-40176 | 9:09:35 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed | 9:09:36 PM |
| Tim Hunt | This can also be used to test the form vaidation. | 9:10:55 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | did you consider making public API for moodle.org/plugins ? eg would be nice to query for things like "give me all packages released for 2.5" using REST | 9:12:20 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | There is, basically, but Aparup, Eloy or David Mudrak might have to explain the details … I don't think it's documented. You could look at what Moodle is doing. | 9:14:28 PM |
| Jamie Pratt | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/lib/formslib.php_Testing | 9:14:45 PM |
| Mark Nelson | forms lib is a crazy beast .. | 9:14:46 PM |
| bmbrands | Nice, a quick way of adding many many random submissions and test how things perform if you list the forms submitted | 9:15:44 PM |
| David Mudrák | TomekMuras: At the moment, we have very basic API that is used by Moodle sites. There is a plan to extend it as needed, should there be a demand and some good use cases | 9:15:49 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | Thanks | 9:16:07 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | It's finding the right one to switch to | 9:16:07 PM |
| David Mudrák | I mean "would be nice" is not strong use case per-se | 9:16:16 PM |
| Tim Hunt | The API is OK. I htink we can fix thinigs with evolutionary improvements. | 9:16:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | We talked about moving to a new one, and decided we'd have to provide a b/c layer | 9:16:28 PM |
| Marina Glancy | we wanted to replace the quickform backend and leave moodleform api | 9:16:28 PM |
| Jamie Pratt | https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/compare/wip_MDL-40176_v4 | 9:16:33 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed | 9:16:34 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | I agree, I was thinking about it because we do need one already anyway - for moodle | 9:16:43 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Most of us can't say anything. | 9:16:45 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | marina was the only HQ person in our discussion at hackfest | 9:16:46 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | But Petr Å koda probably has strongest views on it | 9:16:57 PM |
| bmbrands | this diff shows it https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/compare/wip_MDL-40176_v4 | 9:17:08 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed | 9:17:08 PM |
| Jamie Pratt | https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/commit/2fba1be14986f69887bf486723565139d73091ad | 9:17:10 PM |
| Moodle Bot | http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/2fba1be14986f69887bf486723565139d73091ad - () Unknown. | 9:17:10 PM |
| Mark Nelson | the API is convoluted, you have to go back and forth between files to find out what is happening | 9:17:36 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | There are some dumb things with accessing things by index instead of by name | 9:18:02 PM |
| bmbrands | wouldn't changing the formslib affect huge amounts of code? | 9:18:21 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | bmbrands: hence a b/c layer | 9:18:29 PM |
| Mark Nelson | I discovered that when I was implementing the new icon in the date selector element for 2.5, which you would think would be rather easy | 9:18:34 PM |
| David Mudrák | Moodle Meetings: one thing to that list would an availability to construct forms on client side | 9:19:03 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No. We wrote client-side validation ourselves. | 9:19:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | yeah - we need to have some way to do ajax forms | 9:19:29 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | have you seen forms in symfony? | 9:19:32 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | I have no idea if / how re-usable they are tbh | 9:19:57 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I can't remember how much we chatted them | 9:20:21 PM |
| Marina Glancy | there is a document somewhere | 9:20:30 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | People in that working group were: Mark Nielsen, Marina Glancy, Amy Groshek, and myself IIRC. | 9:20:34 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Perth_Hackfest_October_2012/Forms_API according to the breakout session in the Hackfest, it was agreed that quickforms needed replacement. | 9:20:37 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | I always find that with mforms I wish its output could be abstracted and in turn for forms to be interpretable to JS | 9:20:40 PM |
| Mark Nelson | The form library seems fine if you are simply creating a form, but once you have to actually go into the code to find out what's happening it's all over the place | 9:20:52 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | There is a way of doing AJAX forms, it's just not very elegant (involves output buffers and regular expressions) | 9:20:57 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Ah Andrew Davis | 9:21:02 PM |
| Jason Fowler | can HQ please click the image of the person presenting | 9:22:18 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Which one is AWOL? | 9:22:30 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/GSOC/2013 | 9:22:35 PM |
| Moodle HQ | yep sorry will have to stay awake! | 9:22:38 PM |
| Jason Fowler | so they take centre stage of the hangout | 9:22:48 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Troy Lee was the one who got busy with other things. | 9:22:58 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | the feedback for global serch is welcome | 9:23:13 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | the link is... | 9:23:18 PM |
| Julian Ridden | loving the work done so far on global search | 9:23:35 PM |
| Tim Hunt | See above. | 9:23:38 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Pronunciation evaluation question type | 9:23:42 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I already said. Troy. | 9:23:43 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233166 | 9:23:46 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Now | 9:23:49 PM |
| Julian Ridden | can I assume there will be a block to go alongside the local plugin when finished? | 9:23:57 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Cool idea. | 9:23:59 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | Besides that GSOC for global search is going fine - we're on track | 9:24:03 PM |
| Prateek Sachan | Julian (JJB): yes, there will be a block for that | 9:24:14 PM |
| Julian Ridden | thanx | 9:24:23 PM |
| lukecarrier | now | 9:24:33 PM |
| Jason Fowler | now | 9:24:34 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | now | 9:24:35 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Now | 9:24:35 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | now | 9:24:38 PM |
| Julian Ridden | now | 9:24:44 PM |
| Julian Ridden | but when will then be now? | 9:24:51 PM |
| Jason Fowler | my lag was more from the keyboard than the internet connection | 9:24:56 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | now | 9:25:00 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | 45 seconds lag here | 9:25:00 PM |
| Julian Ridden | julian hopes someone here picks up the gratuitous spaceballs reference | 9:25:19 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I did not hear Martin say Now. | 9:25:21 PM |
| Mark Nelson | sorry, i didnt realise you actually wanted us all to say now | 9:25:26 PM |
| Davo Smith | I can hear the discussion about the lag, but I didn't hear the word 'now' | 9:25:33 PM |
| Jason Fowler | lol | 9:25:35 PM |
| Mark Nelson | but just a few to get a general idea. | 9:25:43 PM |
| Rajesh Taneja | lol | 9:25:43 PM |
| Amanda Doughty | I did not hear 'now' | 9:25:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | it's too late now | 9:25:47 PM |
| Mark Nelson | lol | 9:25:50 PM |
| David Mudrák | NOW | 9:25:52 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | I had a play with ajax forms a while ago: https://github.com/damyon/moodle/compare/d28d214167bfe9360206c3a5a5f2116f434d99ad...WIP_MFORM_DIALOGUE | 9:26:01 PM |
| Moodle Bot | http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/d28d214167bfe9360206c3a5a5f2116f434d99ad - (Dan Poltawski) Merge branch 'w08_https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38154_m25_delperf' of git://github.com/skodak/moodle | 9:26:02 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | We really need to get a proper solution in place for ajax forms | 9:26:21 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Maybe the BACKEND team can tackle forms again in 2.7 | 9:26:26 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Yes please | 9:26:35 PM |
| Tim Hunt | ForumNG has Ajax forms. | 9:26:37 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Output needs to be abstracted for that to happen | 9:26:40 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Yay renderers | 9:26:42 PM |
| Tim Hunt | BUt it is not pretty | 9:26:42 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | That branch had mforms in dialogues working and submitting via ajax (including tinymce) | 9:27:01 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | https://github.com/marxjohnson/moodle-block_messageteacher/blob/dev/message.php Displays and processes a form, via AJAX or syncronously. JS is show_form()/submit_form() in https://github.com/marxjohnson/moodle-block_messageteacher/blob/dev/yui/src/messageteacher/js/messageteacher.js | 9:27:49 PM |
| Jason Fowler | wow that crashed my chrome | 9:28:05 PM |
| Jason Fowler | jason waves at Romo | 9:28:35 PM |
| bmbrands | where can I find that list of issues ? | 9:28:41 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | Ooh accessibility. Anything that is relevant to my block? https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=block_accessibility | 9:29:09 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40738 | 9:29:19 PM |
| Shane Elliott | affects government departments too | 9:29:30 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | i.e. can I add/change stuff in my block to help? | 9:29:33 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Basically backend is the A-team. | 9:29:41 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | Oh wow, that's a comprehensive list | 9:29:58 PM |
| Jason Fowler | By definition the backend team is the B-Team | 9:30:02 PM |
| Jason Fowler | the Frontend Team is the A-Team | 9:30:12 PM |
| Jason Fowler | user's see us first :D | 9:30:19 PM |
| Julian Ridden | real question is....who is the Mr-T of the Moodle A-Team ;) | 9:30:39 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Mr-T? | 9:30:44 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols is X | 9:30:52 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | I pity the fool | 9:30:56 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | haha | 9:30:59 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | I pity the fool who use jquery | 9:31:03 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Mr-T would be Damyon or Sam | 9:31:06 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | This is an ordered list? | 9:31:06 PM |
| Amanda Doughty | hee hee | 9:31:07 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | interface like-ability | 9:31:49 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Awww - we don't get to see you Petr? | 9:31:52 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Is there anything stopping us from using local caches for request caches? | 9:33:06 PM |
| nadavkav | Hello | 9:33:10 PM |
| Tim Hunt | "Should help" That is not very reassuring. | 9:33:20 PM |
| Tim Hunt | One woudl hope that it was tested before it was integrated. | 9:33:29 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | nadavkav: Video stream for dev meeting is | 9:33:46 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | we started some meetings on Wednesday afternoons 2PM (Perth time) about caching … if anyone is interested come here then | 9:34:34 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (and clustering) | 9:34:47 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Why have the partners been discussing this in private? | 9:35:09 PM |
| Petr Škoda | request cache is for one request only, right? you keep it in memory only | 9:35:11 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Why does OU discuss things in private? | 9:35:25 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Petr Å koda: ah true | 9:35:28 PM |
| Marina Glancy | is dev chat private? | 9:35:41 PM |
| Petr Škoda | local cache is for things like languages, theme stuff, JS | 9:35:51 PM |
| Mark Nelson | it's a conspiracy. | 9:36:32 PM |
| Tim Hunt | MArtin, we don't discuss changes we want to make to Moodle core in private. | 9:36:39 PM |
| Julian Ridden | that reminds me petr..is there possibly a way to tie JS cache clearing with theme cache? Im facing issues with themes upgrading using js files. | 9:37:04 PM |
| Jason Fowler | the chats were mostly here in devchat tim - there have been some awesome conversations :D | 9:37:04 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I think the discussions that happened in dev chat were actually just everyone working out what they thought | 9:37:23 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Julian (JJB): Purge caches does both | 9:37:29 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Oh, that was just netspot, not "Partners" | 9:37:36 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Julian (JJB): If you bump the theme version, IIRC that clears cache..? | 9:38:02 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Jordan was involved, representing Catalyst | 9:38:23 PM |
| Julian Ridden | but theme developer mode does not. bumping version does not clear the JS cache. Just theme cache | 9:38:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Julian (JJB): set jsrev = -1 in config | 9:38:43 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | not integrating issues with patches is a serious issue - it discourages developers | 9:38:44 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Peer_reviewing_checklist | 9:39:03 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | What Debian did was to ask for peer reviews as well. | 9:39:30 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | And the dashboard: https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=13051 | 9:39:34 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | There is even a bit of culture there like: "I'll integrate your change if you go & peer review some other patch" | 9:40:10 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Peer_reviewing_checklist | 9:40:20 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Tomek, that wouldn't fit too easily with our weekly integration workflow … | 9:41:36 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | It also means that issues affecting multiple components give longer for other component leads to notice issues | 9:43:19 PM |
| Tim Hunt | That is a pain for compoent maintiners, but a worthwhile change. | 9:43:33 PM |
| bmbrands | It would be cool to have this for the plugin database as well | 9:43:36 PM |
| Marina Glancy | there is a "review" possibility in plugins database | 9:44:00 PM |
| Anthony Borrow | @bmbrands I'll keep that in mind | 9:44:02 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | uh, good idea but sounds like a bit of over-kill. I'd hope that component mainainers know what they do ;) | 9:44:14 PM |
| bmbrands | what's that weird sound I hear sometimes, sounds like an electronic parrot .. | 9:44:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | bmbrands - it's the ipod on the desk | 9:44:46 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | it is romo | 9:45:00 PM |
| bmbrands | That review area is rarely used on the plugin database. right now it's easier to look at the github project that goes with the plugin | 9:45:18 PM |
| bmbrands | hahaha cool, I love robots | 9:46:26 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Plugins already have no wait time after the first acceptance. | 9:46:28 PM |
| Mark Nelson | So, once you get your plugin accepted you can now safely write the dodgy code. ;) | 9:47:16 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Correct | 9:47:30 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | And when that is discovered you will be banned for life | 9:47:44 PM |
| Amanda Doughty | harsh | 9:47:54 PM |
| Shane Elliott | uh oh | 9:47:55 PM |
| Anthony Borrow | @bmbrands that has been because we have few trusted reviewers - the idea was to have trusted reviewers write a general review of a particular version of a plugin. As Martin mentions, if folks want to modify code there is no peer-review of the code done but we could use a similar process when first looking at the code | 9:47:58 PM |
| bmbrands | ah great, so now I can create some prism modules Great, need to call the NSA to see if they are interested | 9:48:03 PM |
| Julian Ridden | lol | 9:49:55 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | No need to call them, Bas, just send an email to yourself. | 9:50:29 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | nice URL ;) | 9:50:43 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Haha | 9:51:13 PM |
| bmbrands | @andrew: I think they just turned on my webcam | 9:52:13 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I added that, but can Andrew talk? | 9:52:51 PM |
| Julian Ridden | Lucky I am in China tonight. Safe from Prism here. My data is 100% safe | 9:52:57 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Andrew did file-less backups | 9:53:15 PM |
| Tim Hunt | My Russ is doing profiling and fixing performance. | 9:53:26 PM |
| Tim Hunt | The OU wants to output progress indication during backups, to prevent browser time-outs. | 9:53:48 PM |
| Anthony Borrow | +1 for progress indication | 9:54:24 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Cool. | 9:54:29 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | timhunt very good idea, I can see that being a problem v. often | 9:54:30 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Ticket for fileless backup/restore? Is it in master? | 9:55:20 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40579 | 9:55:29 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | rexlorenzo@gmail.com: yes it's in master | 9:55:29 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Look, and Epic | 9:55:33 PM |
| Tim Hunt | an Epic | 9:55:36 PM |
| nadavkav | beautiful news on backup/restore improvements!!! | 9:55:54 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Thanks Andrew. Well done on zero notice. | 9:55:56 PM |
| Marina Glancy | it's 11pm | 9:56:00 PM |
| Marina Glancy | well almost midnight | 9:56:07 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Backup has lots of circular references beteween classes, which confuses PHP's garbage collection. | 9:56:45 PM |
| Tim Hunt | (Well, reference counting) | 9:56:49 PM |
| nadavkav | +1 from me, for the quick backup button | 9:57:25 PM |
| David Mudrák | Maybe if the backup/restore executed in backgreound in advance while the user is still clicking the current UI, it would "feel" much more quicker | 9:57:43 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | What was the issue # for that meta issue? | 9:57:48 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | There are plugins that offer a 1 click restore with defaults set: https://github.com/lsuits/simple_restore | 9:57:51 PM |
| Julian Ridden | maybe minimise it as we do with other settings pages now | 9:57:52 PM |
| Julian Ridden | definitely +1 from me too | 9:58:03 PM |
| nadavkav | Thanks rexlorenzo | 9:58:36 PM |
| bmbrands | It would be great to allow tinyMCE themes as well | 10:00:50 PM |
| nadavkav | Have you check RTL issues on Mobile? | 10:01:02 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Yes. | 10:01:09 PM |
| nadavkav | 10:01:19 PM | |
| Michael de Raadt | (Love your work, Nadav.) | 10:01:28 PM |
| Jason Fowler | MDL-40770 | 10:01:59 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40770 - Implement Icons for TinyMCE 3.* V: 0, W: 1, Type: Task, Assignee: Jason Fowler, Priority: Minor, Status: Development in progress | 10:02:00 PM |
| nadavkav | (Love you watching over my work! any Mary too) | 10:02:00 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | these edit icons really need people to look at them | 10:02:36 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | it makes course editing look (and work) quite a bit different | 10:03:02 PM |
| Jason Fowler | please provide input, let us know if what we have implemented is easy to understand | 10:03:03 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | I have been following the editing icon ticket, is it a user preference? | 10:03:45 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | no - there are 2 admin settings (one for blocks, one for activities) | 10:04:19 PM |
| nadavkav | moosh is also working like this | 10:05:58 PM |
| nadavkav | beautiful news | 10:06:14 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Very simplistic explanation on how to actually implement it haha. | 10:06:16 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols tries to catch up | 10:07:00 PM |
| nadavkav | (moosh - https://github.com/tmuras/moosh uses automatic class loading too) | 10:09:00 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Well, if you are workign on add-ons that you want ot work in 2.5 and before, you can't easily use it yet | 10:09:36 PM |
| Tim Hunt | But autoloading is very cool | 10:09:50 PM |
| Mark Nelson | For reference: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading | 10:09:56 PM |
| lukecarrier | Lovely to see Moodle adopt functionality in PHP that makes plugin development work considerably cleaner and easier --great to see! | 10:10:00 PM |
| Petr Škoda | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40305 | 10:11:40 PM |
| Petr Škoda | it describes the phpunit testcase autoloading | 10:11:55 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Example of a new event - https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39956 | 10:13:13 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Why just specific events, or * | 10:13:15 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Why not a more structured hierarchy of event types? | 10:13:23 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Look at the diff in that URL to see the new implementation, compared to the old. | 10:13:47 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Each event is an class, right? | 10:14:42 PM |
| Mark Nelson | yes. | 10:14:49 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Why not use instanceof to work out which listeners to call? | 10:14:58 PM |
| Petr Škoda | because it would be slower | 10:16:54 PM |
| Tim Hunt | How much slower? | 10:17:56 PM |
| Petr Škoda | we get an event name, then get list of observers from array that contains them all indexed by event name | 10:18:52 PM |
| Tim Hunt | And, why does that only work for specific event names, or *? | 10:19:23 PM |
| Tim Hunt | At teh opint where you add an event listener to that array, you coudl use instanceof to work out other subsets of keys to add it to. | 10:19:47 PM |
| Petr Škoda | because it is enough for logging | 10:19:47 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Logging is not the only use case. | 10:19:58 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Plagiarism API woudl be another good case. | 10:20:06 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Wants to listen to anything that is submit for grading. | 10:20:15 PM |
| Petr Škoda | if you want it make a proposal and create code | 10:20:19 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I made the propsal before, and was ignored. | 10:20:30 PM |
| Petr Škoda | did you made the code too? | 10:20:47 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | We appreciated your earlier feedback, Tim. | 10:21:02 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No. I made hte suggestion before you wrote the code in a less good way. | 10:21:03 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Michael D. One day you must explain to me how ignoring everything I say is appreciation. | 10:21:30 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | I wouldn't say it was ignored. | 10:21:51 PM |
| Petr Škoda | Tim: if I disagree with your proposal I will not implement it, what is wrong with that? | 10:22:09 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Show me one change made to the events or logging spec in response to one of my suggestions. | 10:22:11 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | A lot of the justification of the Events changes came in response to your feedback. | 10:22:38 PM |
| Julian Ridden | in relation to alternate name fields, can the user in profile settings choose which they would prefer to display? i.e. a preferred first name | 10:23:09 PM |
| Julian Ridden | thanks for that answer | 10:25:00 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | In the "Full name format", can you specify to use alternatename (if present), else use "normal" first and last name? | 10:27:12 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Any news on what happend to https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Hack-a-thon_2013 | 10:27:54 PM |
| nadavkav | yes | 10:28:58 PM |
| Tim Hunt | For the benefit of NZers, would someone from HQ like to reply to https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233006#p1013953 ? | 10:29:02 PM |
| nadavkav | I am asking about Moodle | 10:29:19 PM |
| nadavkav | if it can be supported in Moodle HUB, that's cool too | 10:29:41 PM |
| Tim Hunt | People want metadata on questions too. | 10:29:58 PM |
| nadavkav | For searching purposes | 10:30:07 PM |
| nadavkav | ok | 10:30:35 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Could be like comments / files, etc. | 10:31:01 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233166#p1013536 | 10:31:59 PM |
| nadavkav | not yes | 10:32:18 PM |
| nadavkav | yet | 10:32:21 PM |
| Michael Aherne | Is SCORM slated for removal, or just no further development? | 10:32:48 PM |
| nadavkav | good | 10:33:01 PM |
| bmbrands | well the SCORM rewrite is in the GSOC list. | 10:33:17 PM |
| Julian Ridden | LTI v2 is in Public Draft currently - http://www.imsglobal.org/lti/ | 10:33:34 PM |
| Michael Aherne | Good to know, thanks! | 10:34:19 PM |
| nadavkav | ok | 10:34:59 PM |
| nadavkav | Thank you | 10:35:53 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Anyone using the clean theme as a base in production? We want to switch the our base theme, but is it really not that stable? | 10:36:29 PM |
| Julian Ridden | I have been so excited to work with bootstrap now | 10:36:32 PM |
| Julian Ridden | what? no more “wood†theme? :P | 10:36:43 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Someone was working on a boostrap-based wood theme. | 10:36:59 PM |
| Moodle HQ | Sorry again Kiwis | 10:37:00 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | LOL we should've moaned loader? | 10:37:25 PM |
| Tim Hunt | You should just send a pack of nice coffee beans to each kiwi moodler. | 10:37:28 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | are you keeping it around afterwards? Will it be a possible location for good perf data? | 10:39:13 PM |
| Moodle HQ | not sure about that yet | 10:39:31 PM |
| Moodle HQ | but the cluster is fully scripted | 10:39:45 PM |
| Davo Smith | thanks for sharing with us | 10:40:11 PM |
| Julian Ridden | than everyone | 10:40:21 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | no lag here | 10:40:25 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Nope, didn't experience lag either. | 10:40:33 PM |
| Julian Ridden | thanks i mean | 10:40:35 PM |
| Amanda Doughty | Very useful. Thanks | 10:40:36 PM |
| Julian Ridden | maybe eve “thants†:D | 10:40:50 PM |
| nadavkav | Thanks | 10:40:51 PM |
| Moodle HQ | thanks developers | 10:41:01 PM |
| Moodle HQ | thevelopers | 10:41:04 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Night everyone | 10:41:08 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Goodbye | 10:41:09 PM |
| Shane Elliott | good night from Beijing | 10:41:11 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | g'nite | 10:41:18 PM |
| Rajesh Taneja | cya...gn | 10:41:19 PM |
| Michael Aherne | Thanks for that | 10:41:20 PM |
| bmbrands | Ciao | 10:41:21 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | good night | 10:41:24 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Bye | 10:41:31 PM |
| sbourget | Bye | 10:41:38 PM |
| yairspi | Bye | 10:41:48 PM |
| Helen Foster | good meeting, kudos to organisers | 10:41:55 PM |
| Helen Foster | and hangout participants | 10:42:07 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | 10:42:11 PM | |
| Mark Nelson | While there are a lot of partners etc here, I have created a new certificate module which is in beta - read abt it at https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=229683 | 10:42:52 PM |
| Mark Nelson | ok, now time to watch an episode of TNG. Night. | 10:43:25 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | now! | 10:59:29 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | (sorry was watching the first bits i missed jsut now on youtube ) | 10:59:54 PM |
| Jason Fowler | see you all in the morning :/ | 11:04:39 PM |
