Developer meeting January 2015
Developer meetings > January 2015 meeting notes
Time | 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 20 January 2015 |
Meeting room | Live stream at YouTube |
Chat | Regular dev chat |
#moodledev | |
Event page | Google+ page |
Contents
- 1 Meeting video
- 2 Agenda
- 2.1 Moodle JS framework prototypes research (Invited speaker) [00:02]
- 2.2 Prechecking against Moodle coding guidelines from your command line [00:48]
- 2.3 Quizventure game development [00:55]
- 2.4 Prototype for a new 'Send a message' feature [01:03]
- 2.5 Development of the quiz fault-tolerant mode [01:12]
- 2.6 Database foreign keys enforcement [01:39]
- 2.7 Developer hackfests at upcoming Moodle moots [01:48]
- 3 Meeting chat log
- 4 More
Meeting video
<mediaplayer>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJMF1l3udM</mediaplayer>
Agenda
Moodle JS framework prototypes research (Invited speaker) [00:02]
- by Damyon Wiese
- I will cover a lot here including, Javascript loaders, Javascript Build Tools, Javascript Combo Loading, Javascript Accessible Widget Libraries, Templates for Renderers
- Please see JS Framework Specification and Render library specification
- Estimated length: 50 minutes
Slides: here
Notes:
- Yahoo no longer developing YUI so need for Moodle to find replacement
- need to implement JS framework as alternative
- Moodle existing YUI stuff will have long life
- need to have really good documentation on writing best renderers
- all must have best accessibility possible; universal access
- jQuery - very popular with many who are familiar with it - very stable and well backed
- JS module formats - AMD best for Moodle now, but ES6 likely to be best in future
- requireJS is the recommended library (popular)
- jQuery with wrappers is the recommended widgets library (Wrappers for accessibility)
- Minify on the fly & Use Grunt to minify - undecided yet - opinions welcome
- Renderer improvements. Need to allow calling renderers from JS
- Recommended template: Mustache
Prechecking against Moodle coding guidelines from your command line [00:48]
- by Frédéric Massart
- The patch precheck job in Moodle continuous integration process - see Automated code review
- Short demonstration of the possibility to execute the CI precheck job from the command line (without the need to use the 'cime' label in the tracker), especially when using mdk
- Estimated length: 5-10 minutes
Notes:
- (a Moodle HQ personal project)
- this tool integrates with MDK
- your branch must be public
Quizventure game development [00:55]
- by John Okely
- Short demonstration of the Quizventure game module highlighting interesting things you can do with our existing APIs
- Estimated length: 5-10 minutes
Notes:
- (another HQ personal project)
- Video (older version)
- Plugins DB Page
- Technologies used: Moodle Question API, Javascript, HTML5 Canvas
- demonstrates what you can do with Question API
- uses dynamics of game play to reinforce learning concepts
Prototype for a new 'Send a message' feature [01:03]
- by Frédéric Massart
- Rather than redirecting you somewhere to send a message inside Moodle, this new feature would open a dialog, etc...
- Estimated length: 5-10 minutes
Notes:
- (another HQ personal project)
- Confusing navigation when messaging in Moodle - just have a pop up on the page itself - and dialogue box remains if you change pages.
- More than one dialogue box at the same time
- Responsive
Development of the quiz fault-tolerant mode [01:12]
- by Tim Hunt
- This allows the students to continue working on their quiz attempt, even if the network is unreliable, by storing everything on the client-side, and using Ajax when possible. I will try to show some more of the details.
- If the network connection never comes back, you can download the responses as an ecrypted file, which can later be uploaded ot the server.
- Work in progress code is at Tim's github repo
- Do we want this in standard Moodle? If so, when, and how do we add it? (It was developed as a plugin while it was an experiment. If it went into standard Moodle it would need to be merged into the main quiz code.)
- Estimated length: 20 minutes
Notes:
- OU originated - students taking exams on poor wifi - need to retain their work if wifi is lost. Developed as a plugin
- Quiz in offline mode - notified when answer changed and saved -summary page status changed immediately with no reloading
- Saving answers even when the session timed out (a pop-up to log in again appears and the user can continue in the attempt)
- Teacher can download (encrypted) responses if all else fails - and upload responses (multiple allowed)
Database foreign keys enforcement [01:39]
- by Avi Levi, Asaf Ohayon
- Fixes done on 2.9 Dev branch
- Tracker : https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-30799
- Discussion : https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=275290
- GitHub : https://github.com/AdminTheWeb/moodle/commits/MDL-30799-master
- Estimated length: 10-15 minutes
Developer hackfests at upcoming Moodle moots [01:48]
- by Michael de Raadt
- MoodleMoot IE-UK, Dublin, May 11-13, Hackfest May 14 program. First day come together, discuss and then on the hackfest begin to develop the ideas generated. New developers welcome.
- MoodleMoot Australia, Melbourne, July 6-8, Hackfest July 9 program. With similar organisation.
- MoodleMoot US, Minneapolis, Aug 4-5, Hackfest August 6 site. Again along similar lines.
- Plan is to do these annually.
Meeting chat log
David Mudrák | General developer meeting in 3 minutes | 12:57:10 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_January_2015 | 12:59:13 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJMF1l3udM | 13:01:09 UTC |
Davo Smith | Hello David | 13:01:18 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | Hello David | 13:01:23 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | i'm far behind then :) | 13:01:56 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | ah: if you use non-flash browser, use flash browsr | 13:02:39 UTC |
Mary Cooch | will that presentation be available afterwards as well? | 13:04:02 UTC |
Juan Leyva | can you switch to full-screen presentation? | 13:05:20 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Bigger on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJMF1l3udM | 13:05:54 UTC |
dave | @mary - yep I can link it on the documentation that we've prepared | 13:05:55 UTC |
Helen Foster | F5? | 13:06:47 UTC |
Juan Leyva | I can't read the text | 13:07:07 UTC |
Juan Leyva | even youtube in full screen | 13:07:14 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | I'm enjoying it on my big TV at home aahhhh | 13:07:19 UTC |
David Mudrák | I forgot to mention, there is a link to the shared google docs where meeting notes are to be composed collaboratively by all participants. You are encouraged to leave notes as you listen to presenters. | 13:07:35 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | (y) it’s blur for me as well | 13:07:46 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | F11 for the browser? | 13:08:47 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | It seems that my 4G dongle is struggling with the youtube tonight so, alas, I shall have to catch up another time | 13:08:59 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | even just widen it to 16:9 … it's too square right now | 13:09:14 UTC |
Tim Hunt | I think that if we are using JavaScript, then we should write JavaScrip - prototype based objects, not class based objects. | 13:10:56 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | (is presentation slides supposed to be moving forward?) | 13:11:50 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | *are | 13:12:05 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | @Tim: What's the difference between the prototype and class concept in the instantiation of an JS object? | 13:12:10 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Now is not the time for a lecture in the difference between the two. | 13:12:47 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Google it later. | 13:12:50 UTC |
Tim Hunt | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Details_of_the_Object_Model | 13:13:13 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Inheritance_and_the_prototype_chain | 13:13:16 UTC |
Tim Hunt | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/816071/prototype-based-vs-class-based-inheritance | 13:13:17 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Snap! | 13:13:26 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Thanks :) | 13:13:26 UTC |
Davo Smith | Should we still be on slide 3, or is it not moving on properly? | 13:13:44 UTC |
Helen Foster | Ctrl + F5 to present | 13:15:28 UTC |
Davo Smith | Yay! | 13:15:42 UTC |
Helen Foster | yes, thanks | 13:16:03 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (y) much better | 13:16:03 UTC |
David Mudrák | I guess a wrong window was shared via the hangout, thanks Damyon - all good now | 13:16:18 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | (y) | 13:16:28 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Presumably if ES6 becomes really compelling in future, there will be million of other people making the switch, and tools will exist to help move. | 13:16:53 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | I like the Homer Simpson logic here | 13:17:05 UTC |
Roberto Pinna | :-) | 13:17:18 UTC |
Anthony Borrow | donuts? | 13:18:03 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Can we package YUI as AMD modules? | 13:18:34 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | Great point: "Presumably if ES6 becomes really compelling in future, there will be million of other people making the switch, and tools will exist to help move." | 13:19:16 UTC |
Tim Hunt | It's like we were on CVS for years, and when we needed to move to git, we could, because everyone else was. | 13:19:45 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Sheep principle (works) | 13:20:14 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Baa! | 13:20:21 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | There is an AMD -> ES6 transpiler, but it's not necessarily great from what I hear | 13:20:29 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Shaun the sheep. | 13:20:31 UTC |
Tim Hunt | We can alswas steal the good ideas from AccDC, and use the ideas to make other libraries better for our own use. | 13:21:17 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | http://6to5.org/docs/usage/modules/ | 13:21:20 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Does anyone have experience contributing to jqueryUI? | 13:22:57 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Can we fix things ourselves & contribute them back? | 13:23:14 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Also, what is there release schedule? does it fit with our 6-monthly releases. | 13:23:49 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://github.com/jquery/jquery-ui/pulls | 13:23:50 UTC |
Tim Hunt | ? | 13:23:50 UTC |
Tim Hunt | 29 op-en; 1399 closed | 13:24:06 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Not bad. | 13:24:09 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/38817541/ARIA%20Hackathon | 13:24:33 UTC |
Tim Hunt | If anyone gets bored of this meeting. MDL-48898 needs peer review ;-) | 13:24:51 UTC |
Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-48898 - Quiz time period setting should use admin_setting_configduration, V: 0, W: 1, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Tim Hunt, Priority: Minor, Status: Waiting for peer review | 13:24:51 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | definitely seems interest, at least | 13:25:00 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Y. Andrew N managed to infiltrate YUI core dev team. We may want to invest the time towards becoming trusted contributors to jQuery UI | 13:25:43 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Like with CSS | 13:27:04 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | +1 to all of this | 13:27:30 UTC |
Tim Hunt | core + blocks + filters etc. / mod_forum / mod_quiz / etc. would be my intial suggested chunking. | 13:27:49 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | btw, I did the YUI stuff on my own time. | 13:28:06 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes, but in future, perhapas HQ sould encorage staff to do things like that on work time? | 13:28:30 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | also btw, I'm not able to watch the meeting so I may be missing half of what you guys are talkin gabout | 13:28:30 UTC |
Tim Hunt | CiBoT can lint for u | 13:29:22 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | I think that browsers will be well suited to this single bundle case - its how many sites work, get well cached | 13:29:25 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | I do encourage things like that if they're helpful to Moodle in some way | 13:29:35 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | Yes - Damyon and I have discussed the single-bundle thing a fair bit. Gets my +1 | 13:30:17 UTC |
Juan Leyva | Mobile team will be using grunt too | 13:31:15 UTC |
Juan Leyva | (linting etc…) | 13:31:20 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | question: does grunt work with distributed 'make files'? i.e. for third party plugins | 13:31:32 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Can we run grunt on the fly? | 13:31:54 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Best of both worlds. | 13:32:02 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | we already have a build process for css | 13:32:27 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | I use Grunt a lot in themes and like it. | 13:32:35 UTC |
dave | on the fly as in at the time of the request? probably not without a giant hack | 13:32:36 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | its silly to say 'on the fly' when you have other build processes which are necessry anwyay | 13:32:49 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | Dan P: No... and that it something I've been pondering how to solve | 13:33:39 UTC |
John Okely | davidmo: grunt can watch parts of the codebase and execute tasks after saving changes | 13:33:39 UTC |
dave | i've built a prototype of something that moodle could use using grunt which is (i believe) linked in the js spec proposal. it's pretty basic but seems pretty cool (does linting/minification for amd/yui modules depending which directory you run the tool on) | 13:33:54 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Damyon missed a problem. Impossible to send HTML with required JS in response to an ajax request. | 13:33:59 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | timhunt: Not impossible, just challening ;) | 13:34:24 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | Dan P: Yes, we do have build tools for our css, but it would arguably be much better to move them to grunt | 13:34:54 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes, one build for everythign is a good win. | 13:35:06 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | Andrew - yes thats my point | 13:35:12 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | i'm just saying that the 'on the fly' option is a false economdy | 13:35:24 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | With grunt we would be able to include all of the dependencies in the node_modules directory. a single npm install . , and a single tool. Also means we can vary required versions between releases | 13:35:24 UTC |
Juan Leyva | is that the turkish president? | 13:35:25 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | Ah okay | 13:35:26 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Does grunt have a --watch option? | 13:35:33 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | yes, but I was answering your previous point | 13:35:33 UTC |
Tim Hunt | (If not, can we add it?) | 13:35:45 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | I believe we can do so timhunt | 13:35:49 UTC |
jetha | (<3 handlebars) | 13:35:52 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | There is a watch task that works Tim | 13:35:59 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://github.com/gruntjs/grunt-contrib-watch | 13:36:02 UTC |
Andrew Nicols | <3 | 13:36:08 UTC |
John Okely | davidmo: yes tim | 13:36:10 UTC |
dave | tim - yep | 13:36:17 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | @Tim: E.g. -> https://github.com/gjb2048/moodle-theme_shoehorn/blob/MOODLE_27/Gruntfile.js#L271-L278 | 13:36:52 UTC |
*Dan Poltawski | is impressed with Damyons improved command of Mac OSX :D | 13:37:22 UTC |
dave | he loves it :P | 13:37:59 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | See, Damyon uses real test data, much more interesting | 13:38:11 UTC |
*Martin Dougiamas | bangs on about it | 13:38:16 UTC |
dave | like the giant ascii horse? :P | 13:38:47 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | we've lost the window ... | 13:38:59 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | still seeing the vi templates/horse.mustache command | 13:39:29 UTC |
Tim Hunt | OK here | 13:39:55 UTC |
dave | how about now? | 13:39:55 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | It’s working for me.... | 13:39:57 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | video is frozen in general for me … might be my stream | 13:40:21 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | still moving here | 13:40:29 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Even Jason Statham isn't moving | 13:40:32 UTC |
Juan Leyva | working here | 13:40:32 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Where do we think that RAM difference comes from? | 13:41:17 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Without understanding it, it means nothing. | 13:41:35 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Right. Meaninless. We don't do that in real pages. | 13:41:46 UTC |
David Mudrák | (Can we go full screen again?) | 13:41:53 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Still a bug, but not relevant to this. | 13:41:58 UTC |
Tim Hunt | How many words are all the specs you want us to read combined? | 13:43:25 UTC |
dave | lots | 13:43:42 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Please give us enough time to read and digest it all. | 13:43:47 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | great work, I like what you've covered and everything i've heard seems sensible :) | 13:44:23 UTC |
jetha | +1 | 13:44:44 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (y) | 13:44:45 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | Surely community will be happy with this :) | 13:45:19 UTC |
Tim Hunt | It seems like some of the choices are clear, and sme of the choices are more of a trade-off. I would like you to write a <400 word summary of the key points, and questions, and post that in the forums. | 13:45:20 UTC |
Tim Hunt | :-) thanks. | 13:45:34 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | great docs, and yeah an executive summary would be good | 13:45:54 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Lots of good work, but you have chosen to dump it all on us at one tie now, rather than blogging about it over the last few months. | 13:45:59 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Good presentation thought. | 13:46:10 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Thanks. | 13:46:13 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Thank you Damyon, very interesting :) | 13:46:20 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | oh come on Tim. Lots of those bits all hang together. | 13:46:33 UTC |
Mary Cooch | thanks Damyon and reminder/request if the presentation can be linked to Notes doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uXHZPSbU3wZzlFj0Qk6ZHMwQ06KalvNdk0pqn2wmt_Q/edit# | 13:46:52 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes. BUt damyon has been llearnign about this for months. He is expecting us to leran it all from him at one time. | 13:47:10 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | The video is rewindable now too | 13:47:22 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Right, which takes more time. | 13:47:36 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Can we focust the broadcast on david while he is talking. ... OJ forgetit | 13:49:30 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | (y) Thanks | 13:52:10 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yay! we can all DDoS the CI sever ;-) | 13:53:11 UTC |
David Mudrák | I checked with Eloy on it and he said it has nothing to do anyway :-p | 13:53:34 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | sure, you really want to upset the integration team | 13:53:51 UTC |
Tim Hunt | LOL | 13:53:56 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | i say we open it until it's a problem | 13:55:15 UTC |
Tim Hunt | +1 | 13:55:21 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | or give it more resources | 13:55:28 UTC |
John Okely | I have started work on a client side version of this, although it's not as nice | 13:55:34 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | this is great stuff | 13:55:35 UTC |
John Okely | nice looking* | 13:55:41 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | yes, ideally we'd have a better code review tool that didn't litter thet racker so much :) | 13:56:36 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Just write it all perfect first time | 13:57:02 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | btw, a recent feature in those code checker reports is that they link the line of code in question (they didn't used to) | 13:57:02 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes. that is really nice. | 13:57:16 UTC |
David Mudrák | We are slowly integrating into the Plugins directory, too. | 13:58:01 UTC |
David Mudrák | (the prechecker) | 13:58:11 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (65 watching this live now) | 13:58:25 UTC |
Tim Hunt | NOt the arcade game? :-) | 13:58:25 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | also, all the checks tend to report in 'checkstyle' xml based format and so can potentially be integrated into many other tools | 13:58:39 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-local_ci/ is the code | 13:59:15 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | :) | 14:00:20 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | goota be quick! | 14:00:29 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | 1942 version? | 14:01:09 UTC |
Mary Cooch | did I just see that it now has sound? | 14:01:28 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Most creative use of the questoin bank that I have seen so far. | 14:01:38 UTC |
Tim Hunt | :-) | 14:01:41 UTC |
jetha | i'd support an ikaruga version \o/ | 14:01:50 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | :D | 14:02:08 UTC |
Mary Cooch | briliant | 14:02:12 UTC |
danbennett | Well that made me jump | 14:02:19 UTC |
dave | yeah that woke us up | 14:02:28 UTC |
Mary Cooch | I am going to ask my school to install it but they are only on 2.6 at the mo | 14:03:34 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | I'd like to see some research on that …. usually language learning is better in contexts similar to when you need it … but someone should do some comparisons (—> Michael de Raadt) | 14:04:16 UTC |
John Okely | (sorry about everyone's eardrums :) ) | 14:04:43 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Anyway the fun factor is really important for motivation and outweighs other things | 14:05:03 UTC |
Tim Hunt | (y) | 14:05:12 UTC |
David Mudrák | It's definitely innovative - "something the Ring did not intend" | 14:05:39 UTC |
Mary Cooch | are we meant to see somethiing on the screen? | 14:05:55 UTC |
John Okely | Yes | 14:06:09 UTC |
David Mudrák | yes? | 14:06:09 UTC |
Michael de Raadt | Yep. | 14:06:11 UTC |
Michael de Raadt | Coming... | 14:06:14 UTC |
David Mudrák | And I can | 14:06:15 UTC |
Mary Cooch | ah yes lag | 14:06:27 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Now we can | 14:06:37 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (Please let's lose that | 14:07:02 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | awful "Send a message" link) | 14:07:10 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (Hi, Roberto!) | 14:08:08 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Teachers will love this when they want students to concentrate on work ;-) | 14:08:35 UTC |
Michael de Raadt | Legendary, Fred. | 14:08:48 UTC |
Ankit Agarwal | That is brilliant! | 14:08:51 UTC |
jetha | yeah fred is killing it | 14:08:57 UTC |
jetha | just, dang | 14:09:03 UTC |
Ruslan Kabalin | Is this messaging tool using ajax on the background? How the client knows there is a new message, it is checking if there is a message in some interval? | 14:09:04 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | (y) cool | 14:09:04 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | I told the same to Fred heh, he ddn't appreciate my first feedback | 14:09:07 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | the popups look good, but accessibilty? | 14:09:18 UTC |
Tim Hunt | I mean, impressive development and UI, but is it really what you want in a VLE? | 14:09:33 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | we already have it | 14:09:42 UTC |
Tim Hunt | May need a 'Do not disturb' button. | 14:09:48 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Or semthnig. | 14:09:52 UTC |
Juan Leyva | is similar to the mobile app messaging | 14:10:01 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Yes it should be | 14:10:11 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | At high schools I used to look after they used to enable messaging at lunchtimes only sa a 'treat' | 14:10:12 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | those schools used to use moodle.org instead | 14:10:37 UTC |
Tim Hunt | True. | 14:10:42 UTC |
Tim Hunt | And, there are logs. And students need to learn when and how to have fun, and when to concentrate. Study/life skills. | 14:11:08 UTC |
John Okely | Would be interesting to see the effect of increased social interaction on learning. The web's getting more social now, we need to make sure Moodle is on top of what that means for LMSs | 14:11:38 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | yeah but devices have 200 windows … | 14:11:39 UTC |
Ruslan Kabalin | That Fred's messaging prototype resembles me https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=block_gchat, but that one is using websockets (standard html5 feature) on the background, so no web frontend load at all. | 14:11:49 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes. Good potenitally uses for social learning. | 14:11:52 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | Ruslan Kabalin: how is it listening for those websockets? | 14:12:18 UTC |
Mary Cooch | easier control over messaging on and off and restricting I suppose | 14:12:20 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | if we have messaging it should be slick. Policy is up to end users to decide. | 14:12:29 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | its not so easy to have to have long lived websocket type solution in php.. | 14:12:53 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Note messaging is one of the #1 requests in Moodle mobile too | 14:12:58 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | good initiative Fred | 14:13:10 UTC |
Ruslan Kabalin | @Danp using separate TCP connection | 14:13:14 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | yeah but running a php daemon? | 14:13:39 UTC |
jetha | js i'd assume | 14:13:51 UTC |
Ruslan Kabalin | Danp: yep, on the server | 14:14:00 UTC |
Tim Hunt | To links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwqiZ57LVw https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Quiz_access_rules |
14:14:06 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | we had a daemon … is it still working? | 14:14:16 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | yeah, Matteo fixed some things in it recently | 14:14:27 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | this is scary | 14:17:12 UTC |
Eric Merrill | I love that log back in iframe. Heck, that would be cool almost anywhere in Moodle :) | 14:17:12 UTC |
Eric Merrill | We run into these quiz problems all the time (too many students crush the wifi access point they are on or whatever). I'm hoping this eventually makes it into core, but we may deploy at some point anyways | 14:18:20 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | seskey | 14:19:28 UTC |
Eric Merrill | Is there any checking to make sure that the upload file is going to the right moodle server (like if we have mutiple moodle installs, if by happenstance there is a quiz id overlap, could i upload to the wrong server)? | 14:25:01 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | so where is the 'secret' for the encryption stored? I take it a malicious student could get it from the js if they were sufficiently motivated? | 14:25:06 UTC |
Mary Cooch | (Dan knows about students in the real world obviously) | 14:25:28 UTC |
Eric Merrill | Well, part of the question becomes effort required vs what do they get out of it. How much effort is it wroth to get their own answers back? | 14:26:14 UTC |
David Mudrák | Dan: I understand the public key goes to the browser, private stored on the server | 14:26:27 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | ah, of course | 14:27:18 UTC |
David Mudrák | Anybody can encrypt, only server can decrypt | 14:27:21 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | I guess it would be easier to modify the form than muck with the encrypted data | 14:28:01 UTC |
David Mudrák | The actual time of when the file was created might be important, too | 14:29:18 UTC |
David Mudrák | Yes, by here students can claim they were offline while working on searching for answers meanwhile and hacking the file to make it look like it was filled before | 14:30:10 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | In a classroom situation, could there be an intermediate local process that acts as a 'proxy' to all the browsers such that after server connection loss, you would not have to take a USB stick to 30+ machines? | 14:32:37 UTC |
David Mudrák | like submitting a forum post, indeed | 14:32:42 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | when we were discussing editor autosave, we were thinking clientside localstorage | 14:33:42 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | and public key encryption didn't dawn on me | 14:34:11 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | Which we only didn't do because of privacy. | 14:34:22 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | In a classroom situation, having time to save 30+ machines on an individual basis is not practical when you have another class banging at the door ;) | 14:35:22 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | Yep we should make that overridable, (concatenating all the JS) | 14:35:50 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | Only 60 hours then | 14:37:05 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | (Note: behat 3 is coming)... | 14:38:05 UTC |
Tim Hunt | https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=quizaccess_offlinemode | 14:39:02 UTC |
Rajesh Taneja | :) | 14:39:03 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes, feedback most welcome. Probalby in the quiz forum. | 14:39:10 UTC |
Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-46891 - Upgrade to behat 3.x, V: 0, W: 3, Type: Bug, Assignee: Rajesh Taneja, Priority: Major, Status: Waiting for peer review | 14:39:20 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | MDL-46891 | 14:39:20 UTC |
Tim Hunt | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=278482 | 14:39:22 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | It looks great Tim thanks | 14:39:58 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Detailed description of the functionality: https://github.com/timhunt/moodle-quizaccess_offlinemode/blob/master/internaldoc/functionality.txt | 14:40:09 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Jason Statham developing for Moodle now. | 14:41:06 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | related: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-17623 | 14:41:25 UTC |
Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-17623 - Summary of Violated Foreign Key Constraints from 700+ Moodles, V: 1, W: 5, Type: Task, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Open | 14:41:25 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Thanks @Tim PKI can be both challenging and fun :) | 14:41:45 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Runnign all Behat with foreign keys would be interesting. | 14:43:18 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | I think a few people have proposed that a first step is to enable foreign key constraints as a developer-only setting is a first step | 14:43:27 UTC |
Tim Hunt | (y) | 14:43:36 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | its too scary to do it for production sites | 14:43:40 UTC |
Tim Hunt | and, possibly only for specific plugins. | 14:43:43 UTC |
Tim Hunt | When I was developing the question engine, I manually created the foreign key links for the new tables I was creating in my DB, and developed with that. It foudn some bugs. | 14:44:13 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | I don't like the concept of 'safe' foreign keys and unsafe ones | 14:44:20 UTC |
Mary Cooch | anyone welcome to help adding couple of sentences to the meeting notes on this last section https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uXHZPSbU3wZzlFj0Qk6ZHMwQ06KalvNdk0pqn2wmt_Q/edit# | 14:44:20 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | MDL-30799 | 14:44:51 UTC |
Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-30799 - META: Enable foreign keys in the database schema, V: 28, W: 15, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Open | 14:44:51 UTC |
Tim Hunt | +1 Dan P | 14:45:14 UTC |
Tim Hunt | There is already XMLDB -> Check foreign keys | 14:46:19 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Makes sense to make it an option first, for sure | 14:46:31 UTC |
Damyon Wiese | If xmldb is generating the install.xml in the wrong order it would be good to fix it. | 14:47:59 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes, a new CiBoT check. | 14:48:11 UTC |
Tim Hunt | (for example) | 14:48:18 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | MDLSITE-2614 | 14:48:58 UTC |
Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2614 - Check foreign keys in CI/pre-release checks, V: 0, W: 1, Type: Task, Assignee: Eloy Lafuente (stronk7), Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 14:48:58 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | thanks Avi for waiting all this time to speak too! | 14:49:38 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Yes. and thanks to him for raising an important topic again. | 14:49:57 UTC |
David Mudrák | Definitely. This needs someone with a passion to finish it. | 14:50:20 UTC |
John Okely | davidmo: and admins checking the integrity of the database before upgrading | 14:51:06 UTC |
David Mudrák | (and after ...) | 14:51:28 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | (main problem is we don't have all FKs defined properly in XMLDB. So surely first step is to define all them (changing indexes by foreign keys where needed). Without the definitions being correct, it's all nuts. | 14:53:14 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | main problem/first problem | 14:53:25 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | (y) the whole Moot is a development event now (y) | 14:54:07 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Thank you david, and all the other presnters. | 14:54:08 UTC |
Tim Hunt | Thanks in particular to all the attendees who had unpleasant local times. | 14:54:25 UTC |
Tim Hunt | We are very lucky in Europe. | 14:54:32 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | (y) | 14:54:34 UTC |
Davo Smith | Thanks all :-) | 14:54:47 UTC |
Gareth J Barnard | Thank you all :) a x=0; x++; from me :) | 14:54:56 UTC |
Michael de Raadt | Thanks! Bye. | 14:55:01 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | (hi) | 14:55:06 UTC |
Mary Cooch | thanks David | 14:55:13 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | (finger) | 14:55:14 UTC |
Juan Leyva | thanks David | 14:55:17 UTC |
Ruslan Kabalin | Thanks David | 14:55:18 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Thanks Eloy | 14:55:20 UTC |
Dan Poltawski | thanks David et al | 14:55:20 UTC |
Tony Butler | Thanks everyone | 14:55:25 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | :"> | 14:55:26 UTC |
Roberto Pinna | :-) | 14:55:30 UTC |
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | pretty cool stuff | 14:55:33 UTC |
Martin Dougiamas | Ciao all | 14:55:34 UTC |
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