Developer meeting January 2014
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Developer meetings > January 2014 meeting notes
| Time | 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 21 January 2014 |
| Meeting room | Moodle HQ YouTube channel (changed since last meeting) |
| Chat | Regular Dev chat |
| #moodledev |
The meeting was streamed live on YouTube with chat through the regular Dev chat room and comments on Twitter.
Meeting Video
<mediaplayer>http://youtu.be/o5G0nPzGpZI</mediaplayer> Note: For an optimised view and to see the chat log, change settings to 1024p HD quality.
Meeting Notes
Possible future changes to Conditional Activities (Sam Marshall, OU)
- More flexible, plug-able conditions
- Better access through groupings
- Better interface, lean and mean
- No docs yet, spec and issues coming
Quiz editing changes (Tim Hunt, Colin Chamber, Mahmoud Kassaei, OU)
- Issue, Discussion
- Dependency between questions as a user works through a quiz
- Improving the interface to make it simpler, similar to course page editing, which people are familiar with.
- Possibly a new "combinable" question type that allows something similar to cloze, but with a simpler interface.
- Possibly other OU question types coming to core. It would be good if the community could provide feedback on what's in the Plugins Directory currently.
Moodle 2.7 progress
Prototypes site (Martin Dougiamas)
- prototype.moodle.net
- A site for early development to gather feedback
- Projects currently there include navigation, editor replacement, forum changes, outcomes...
Clean as default theme (Jérôme Mouneyrac)
- Notes
- Resolve open bugs
- Default theme on new install
- Increase configurability, requires ability to compile LESS on-the-fly.
- New navigation is being considered
- Adding an element library
- Allow people to add bootswatches
- It intended that we will move most themes to Plugins Directory (not Standard, Clean or base themes)
- Bootstrap 3 has been considered and won't be adopted yet
Editor replacement (Damyon Wiese)
- Docs
- TinyMCE3 is out of support
- Editor is critical part of Moodle and has huge impact on user experience
- Editor search narrowed down to TinyMCE4, CKEditor and Atto.
- Prototypes were put up and feedback requested.
- Tending towards Atto, with a CKEditor in the Plugins Directory for those who want it.
Old Assignment removal (Damyon Wiese)
- Issue
- The old assignment has been removed and on upgrade instances of the old assignment will be converted to the new.
- If you are using an old assignment type that is not represented in the new assignment you will have to install the old assignment module from the Plugins Directory
Outcomes (Andrew Davis)
- Issue, Docs
- A lot of work done on Outcomes before 2.6 that didn't make it into the release.
- We're reviewing Totara and Elis to see what features are needed overall.
New logging (Rajesh Taneja)
- New events system is in place
- Old logging calls are being converted to events
- More information captured than previous logging
- Performance is an issue, with more events being captured
- Initiatives to optimise DB queries with a single batch insert at the end of a page load.
- Ability to create new observers to reduce the reliance on the log table for real-time analytics
- Logging system is more plugable.
- Potential to push logs to external database
Moodle Mobile update (Juan Leyva)
- New version of app coming soon (fixing issues with new devices with Android 4.4 and old devices with Android 2.1 and 2.3)
- Potential to use the app from the desktop (See https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop)
- PUSH notifications is top priority
Integration update (Dan Poltawski)
- Pre-checking of issues by CiBot (Continuous integration bot) automated checks on changes before they are submitted to integration (waiting for integration, peer review or with label "cime") (Issue)
- Testing requirements
- PHPUnit or Behat tests required for changes
- Behat improvements
- Misc
- Specific rules for backporting
- Please be aware of the weekly integration schedule
Long term support (Martin Dougiamas)
- 2.7 is going to be a long-term release that will be supported for longer (3 years instead of 18months)
- Backports will be required to backport bug-fixes to the LTS release
A better video conferencing solution for Gen Dev meetings? (Michael de Raadt)
- GoToMeeting (no free)
- Need more suggestions
Questions
Q. What are the plans in 2.7 for Gradebook improvements?
A. Minor bugs being fixed. Three major projects happening, but not going into 2.7. (See MDL-25423)
Q. Will the base theme no longer receive updates or be actively worked on?
A. It will be kept for long term support and fixed for bugs, but may go away after a number of versions.
Q. Anymore changes to the event system? We want to start planning/scoping out analytics/alerts using the new event system in 2.6, but don't want to progress if more changes are expected.
A. Mostly stable now.
Q. Global Search?
A. Code has been written. Waiting for code review for core.
Q. Any plans to actually treat the code freeze deadline as a code freeze for 2.7?
A. That freeze should be colder than last time.
Live Attendees
Adam Olley, Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Bennett, Dan Poltawski, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy Lafuente, Eric Merrill, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jason Hardin, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Justin Filip, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Kirsty, Marina Glancy, Mark Johnson, Martin Dougiamas, Martín Langhoff, Mary Cooch, Matthew Spurrier, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Moodle Bot, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kabalin, S Bourget, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshall, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, XY Ng
Meeting chat log
| Dan Poltawski | 123 | 9:02:39 PM |
| Andrew Davis | ping | 9:02:42 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | testing | 9:02:43 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Hi, all. | 9:02:44 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Good morning | 9:02:51 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | commiserations sam | 9:03:03 PM |
| Andrew Davis | what is it there sam h? | 9:03:03 PM |
| David Mudrák | hello | 9:03:06 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | 2am now | 9:03:09 PM |
| Barbara Ramiro | Hi | 9:03:16 PM |
| Andrew Davis | awesome. going out raving after the meeting? | 9:03:21 PM |
| danbennett | Did someone say rave? | 9:03:29 PM |
| sam marshall | techno techno techno techno]# | 9:03:46 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | unce unce unce | 9:03:48 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | If someone is using a screen reader here they're probably getting excited! | 9:04:15 PM |
| danbennett | brrrrr wubwubwub do doo doo brrwub | 9:04:28 PM |
| Ruslan Kabalin | Hello | 9:04:42 PM |
| David Monllaó | Hi | 9:04:50 PM |
| sbourget | Hello | 9:04:57 PM |
| sam marshall | hey, by end of the meeting you can play the 'it's 4 o'clock in the morning and it's starting to get light' happy hardcore song, I love that one. | 9:04:59 PM |
| danbennett | Yes! :D | 9:05:10 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | is the link to youtubepasted here? | 9:06:23 PM |
| danbennett | 9:06:31 PM | |
| danbennett | Now it is | 9:06:38 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I can get chat on my iPad burr some reason Adium is borked | 9:06:41 PM |
| meetingroom | It's live | 9:07:01 PM |
| danbennett | You're on! *waves* | 9:07:31 PM |
| Mary Cooch | we can see you | 9:07:33 PM |
| David Mudrák | Moodle Meetings: you're on my radar | 9:07:42 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Sam just said responded to bug reports | 9:08:55 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Time the lag | 9:08:59 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Now | 9:09:23 PM |
| danbennett | now | 9:09:27 PM |
| Mary Cooch | oh wow | 9:10:28 PM |
| Mary Cooch | "or"/not | 9:10:39 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (do we do introductions/his?) | 9:11:04 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Tim you can be next if you want | 9:11:36 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I need to open some browser tabs | 9:11:48 PM |
| Jason Fowler | sorry Im late | 9:12:17 PM |
| Jason Fowler | pidgin doesn't like my laptop | 9:12:28 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | loving it | 9:12:57 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I don't know where to comment about this.. | 9:13:02 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | but we've got a few things which want pluggable versions of the same thigns now | 9:13:15 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | like badges | 9:13:19 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Is there a tracker ticket for these changes? | 9:13:27 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | although now i'm thinking, does badges allow activity level awards | 9:13:40 PM |
| Tim Hunt | OK, I think I am ready. | 9:14:12 PM |
| jfilip | Good [insert appropriate time of day / night here] everyone. | 9:16:11 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I thought badges used conditional activities | 9:17:06 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Yes, performance will be tough | 9:17:59 PM |
| David Mudrák | Dan P: +1 for trying not to do same things in paralel | 9:18:09 PM |
| Jenny Gray | I can imagine some open courseware sites that would love conditional courses with the same sorts of rules too | 9:18:28 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Hi from Tim at the OU in Milton Keynes. | 9:18:42 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Hi, Dan from Moodle HQ, Perth Australia | 9:18:43 PM |
| David Monllaó | Hi, my name is David | 9:18:54 PM |
| Davo Smith | Hi, Davo, Synergy Learning (but based in Sheffield) | 9:18:59 PM |
| bmbrands | Hi from the Netherlands! | 9:19:06 PM |
| Jenny Gray | Hi, from Jenny at the OU in Milton Keynes | 9:19:06 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Hello | 9:19:08 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | Hi, Tomek Muras here | 9:19:10 PM |
| Anthony Borrow | Hi from Albuquerque | 9:19:10 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | Hi from Belgium | 9:19:11 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Hi, Adrian from Moodle HQ, Perth | 9:19:11 PM |
| danbennett | Hello! Dan from HowToMoodle (UK) | 9:19:13 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Hi, Sam Hemelryk from Nelson, New Zealand | 9:19:15 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Jason from HQ | 9:19:20 PM |
| sam marshall | sam at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK (as hopefully you noticed from logo on all my slides | 9:19:21 PM |
| Adam Olley | Hi, Adam from NetSpot | 9:19:24 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | Hi, Jerome from Moodle HQ, Perth | 9:19:25 PM |
| kirsty | Hi from Kirsty at HowToMoodle | 9:19:25 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Hi from Amy Groshek, Minnesota, US | 9:19:25 PM |
| Barbara Ramiro | Hi from HQ | 9:19:27 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Hello, Rex from Los Angeles, CA, USA | 9:19:32 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | hi from HQ | 9:19:36 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Hi, Aparup Banerjee, moodle HQ perth | 9:19:40 PM |
| Mary Cooch | Hi from Moodle HQ outpost in Preston Lancs | 9:19:41 PM |
| David Mudrák | Hi, David Mudrak, Czech | 9:19:42 PM |
| sbourget | Hi, Steve from New Hampshire USA | 9:19:46 PM |
| Prateek Sachan | Hi, Prateek Sachan here. | 9:19:48 PM |
| Helen Foster | hi, Helen in Belgium | 9:20:04 PM |
| sam marshall | lol, I liked the 'what the hell are we doing' there | 9:21:11 PM |
| danbennett | Haha | 9:21:36 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming. | 9:21:37 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Martin Dougiamas waves from home in Perth | 9:21:50 PM |
| Jenny Gray | wow, sam my time lag is even longer than yours! | 9:21:51 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | so can you define dependency between questions on the question level (so in question bank and not just in the quiz) | 9:23:04 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987 | 9:24:27 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180 | 9:24:33 PM |
| meetingroom | error at moodlehq | 9:25:54 PM |
| meetingroom | restarting | 9:25:57 PM |
| meetingroom | back now | 9:26:22 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | you look to be back Moodle Meetings | 9:26:24 PM |
| jfilip | I just heard Michael ask everyone to say hi and where they are from. Wow... the lag is going to make asking questions here really difficult. | 9:26:25 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | snap | 9:26:27 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://github.com/moodleou/moodle-qtype_combined | 9:27:11 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | jfilip: can you think of your questions in advance? | 9:27:25 PM |
| Mary Cooch | 9:27:33 PM | |
| jfilip | I just reloaded the G+ event page so hopefully it's less lagged now? | 9:28:45 PM |
| danbennett | We're looking at tims Github screen if that helps jfilip | 9:29:09 PM |
| Tim Hunt | http://www.open.edu/openlearnworks/course/view.php?id=1643 | 9:29:18 PM |
| jfilip | Thanks, it looks like you can scroll ahead in the timeline on the YouTube player so I think I'm up much closer to "live". | 9:30:23 PM |
| danbennett | If you click the text saying "live" it should forward you right to it as well. (red dot for watching live, grey for behind) | 9:30:51 PM |
| jfilip | Yes, it's got the red dot showing "Live" since I scrolled ahead. Perfect. | 9:31:29 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Drag and drop is tough on screen readers | 9:32:02 PM |
| Eric Merrill | +1 on the DnD questions. We love them here. | 9:32:29 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | There are aria guideline for drag and drop. They are complex though | 9:33:11 PM |
| jfilip | We could gather some numbers on usage of qtypes on our customer's sites for contrib types. | 9:33:11 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | lesson: with a decent ui.. | 9:33:51 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Using_the_question_engine_from_module | 9:34:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | can we force the camera on martin? | 9:36:46 PM |
| sam marshall | michael, mute microphone please? it keeps switching to you | 9:36:50 PM |
| sam marshall | thanks | 9:37:12 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I muted him | 9:37:12 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | we have | 9:37:20 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | we don't see your screen martin | 9:38:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I do | 9:38:11 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | i do | 9:38:25 PM |
| Andrew Davis | fyi, to stop the screen jumping around you can click on whoever you want it to stay on. click their thumbnail at the bottom of the hangout. | 9:39:45 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | HQ I hope you are remembering to direct the camera for the recording | 9:39:47 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Whers the beers HQ? | 9:39:56 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | omg no beers | 9:40:25 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (it's super hot here, I could really use one) | 9:40:29 PM |
| Jason Fowler | that's a lot of crazy people at HQ ... you know you have to travel home after this ... unless the tenants upstairs can be bribed ... | 9:40:55 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | TimH just popped on screen for me (again) | 9:41:35 PM |
| sam marshall | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43784 | 9:41:37 PM |
| meetingroom | https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097 | 9:41:38 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | I have beer. White rabbit. | 9:41:59 PM |
| Mike Churchward | Martin -21C here. (opposite of super hot) | 9:42:18 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | i've got a flask.. of hot water and mint tea.. | 9:42:24 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | yay automatic less compiler in core! | 9:43:02 PM |
| XY Ng | martin: yep we are directing the camera | 9:43:15 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Please stop talking about the element library, and get the code in core!!! | 9:43:36 PM |
| Tim Hunt | 9:43:38 PM | |
| Frédéric Massart | (We need elements first ;)) | 9:43:54 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No, release early and release often. | 9:44:05 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | MDL-36558 | 9:44:16 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36558 - Add element library to moodle.V: 11, W: 22, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Sam Hemelryk, Priority: Critical, Status: Development in progress | 9:44:17 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Get the basic strucutre, there, then people can add to it. | 9:44:18 PM |
| Adam Olley | Not sure if it was mentioned, but does the LESS compiler mean we'll get rid of compiled LESS css files from being tracked at all? | 9:44:48 PM |
| bmbrands | jay for bootswatches! | 9:44:58 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | +1 release early n often n om | 9:45:01 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Yes it would, they would go in moodledata | 9:45:24 PM |
| Adam Olley | Awesome | 9:45:31 PM |
| danbennett | Ooo i likey | 9:45:45 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 9:45:47 PM | |
| Adam Olley | compiled less is a pain when cherry picking :P | 9:46:07 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | ^ | 9:46:26 PM |
| bmbrands | does it do less compiling when setting the bootswatch? | 9:46:27 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | No, this is just a POC | 9:46:37 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | But it could (should?) | 9:46:51 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | custom css styles go in moodledata too then i guess? | 9:47:04 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | I think they already do | 9:47:26 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | the do indeed | 9:47:40 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | custom css styles should go into the themes | 9:47:41 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | *they | 9:47:49 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | 9:48:05 PM | |
| Martín Langhoff | ah! here at last! took some work to get empathy working here | 9:48:19 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | hey hi | 9:48:26 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Welcome. | 9:48:33 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | I have been enjoying the show over breakfast | 9:48:38 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | try and look at the agenda and ask your questions 2min in advance | 9:48:39 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | POC = Point Of Care? | 9:48:54 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | Proof of concept | 9:49:06 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | (isn't that right? lol) | 9:49:19 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | y | 9:49:22 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Not Piece Of Cake? | 9:49:28 PM |
| Moodle Bot | The cake is a lie adrian. A lie!!!!!! | 9:49:28 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Nano, Pico, Atto | 9:51:32 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Are we really, really, sure we want to maintain our own editor? | 9:51:46 PM |
| sam marshall | +1 about text editor being important. I'd be interested in how well it works in narrow width, that's a problem with current.. | 9:51:48 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | tim that is the question that is not decided | 9:52:05 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | but i have to say I'm tending that way after lots of thinking | 9:52:44 PM |
| Jason Fowler | the greatest benefit of maintaining our own editor is that we never have to worry about upstream changes, abandonment, and the featureset is always what we want. The worst part of that is that we would have to do the work ourselves | 9:54:41 PM |
| Jason Fowler | and there is no community around the editor already | 9:54:57 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (I am suspicious about all the maths comments.. I know its important, but I also know the maths editor community are very vocal.. have to balance that to average moodle user who doesn't know what moodle.org is) | 9:54:58 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | ^ | 9:55:10 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Which of these editors have the options configurable, and how accessible is the config? Currently we are trying to alter the options for the editor in the db with an install script. Giving people options is nice, but then they complain when their theme doesn't apply to the text they've borked in the text editor… | 9:55:19 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | maths is pretty much the same for all editors in that we need to do some custom work for all | 9:55:34 PM |
| Jason Fowler | we asked the survey takers to test the maths editor ... | 9:55:47 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | there was a license issue with dragmath as well | 9:55:54 PM |
| Jason Hardin | The other thing you need to consider with the editor | 9:55:56 PM |
| Jason Hardin | is the 3rd party plugins that use it currently | 9:56:02 PM |
| jfilip | Dragmath and things like voice / audio recording in the editor are very popular 3rd party plugins for our customers. | 9:56:07 PM |
| Jason Hardin | and all of the support you will need to have for them | 9:56:09 PM |
| Jason Fowler | amygroshek: they all have cionfigurable options | 9:56:15 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | drag math also works not at all on mobile | 9:56:15 PM |
| Jason Hardin | there are several 3rd party math plugins | 9:56:17 PM |
| Jason Fowler | atto is the easiest to configure already | 9:56:29 PM |
| Jason Fowler | and I think TinyMCE 4 is the next easiest | 9:56:39 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | All 3rd party plugins would need to be re-written regardless. | 9:56:41 PM |
| Jason Fowler | followed very very closely by CKEditor | 9:56:51 PM |
| Jason Hardin | sort of | 9:56:52 PM |
| Jason Hardin | some editors will already have plugins for them | 9:56:58 PM |
| Jason Hardin | benefit of a standard os editor | 9:57:04 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | CK has lots, that's the main advantage of it | 9:57:11 PM |
| Jason Hardin | my plugin should work for Tinymce in all innstances of it | 9:57:18 PM |
| Jason Hardin | atto i have to make a plugin specifically to moodle | 9:57:40 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Atto will cost us a lot more | 9:57:43 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Jason Hardin: some will have plugins that can be modified to work, yes, but not all of them can be taken and made to work with Moodle without considerable effort | 9:57:50 PM |
| sam marshall | We have a few editor plugins at the OU (biggest is our maths one). Also need to turn off standard things that don't work well for us... *shrugs* | 9:58:18 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Use Atto. It has less options. = less theme support problems for amy. | 9:58:19 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | Atto is close to what would work on mobile (limited set of options, neat interface) | 9:58:21 PM |
| sam marshall | I'm not that bothered about updating the plugins if we don't have to do it instantly though, it says on that wiki page it'll keep old tinymce for a few versions | 9:58:41 PM |
| jfilip | There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later? | 9:58:47 PM |
| sam marshall | Just one thing about simple editor - I 100% agree but our users are probably going to go ape if we take all their features (tables, colour, stupid crap they shouldn't use) from them... | 9:59:23 PM |
| Tim Hunt | For Moodle, the 1/3 row switching is very nice. | 9:59:29 PM |
| sam marshall | not students, but tutors etc | 9:59:33 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (editor for mobile is stupid IMO. Its going to be built into the mobile os) | 9:59:44 PM |
| jfilip | Sam, educate them =) | 9:59:46 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | Dan P: I agree, different editor (or none) for mobile | 10:00:03 PM |
| sam marshall | jfilip - tried that before | 10:00:08 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | just try and edit a line on a mobile phone with the standrard iphone/android interfaces | 10:00:17 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | its painful, and I imagine they will innovate with their oses | 10:00:29 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | any moodle editor used with conflcit with it when they change | 10:00:47 PM |
| sbourget | Would implementing Atto put in in the same situation we saw with Moodle 1.x with Htmlarea editor? | 10:00:47 PM |
| sam marshall | dan - okay but how do you do, I dunno, insert an image together with upload into moodle filesystem? that needs custom buttons etc | 10:00:47 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | 10:00:52 PM | |
| jfilip | Evernote has a really nice mobile editing interface, you can push a "keyboard" button to remove text input and replace that part of your screen with formatting options. It's really smart and easy to use. | 10:01:05 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Stephen, the opposite. HTMLarea was third-pary and it died. | 10:01:19 PM |
| Tim Hunt | If we build atto ourself, it won't die for as long as we use it. | 10:01:34 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | jfilip: is that html5 only or in an app? | 10:01:35 PM |
| jfilip | AFAIK, it's in the app. I've never used their Android app before but that's how the editor works in iOS. It's super handy on a phone screen. | 10:02:06 PM |
| Jason Hardin | I woukld recommend talking to the accesisblity grou[ | 10:02:36 PM |
| Eric Merrill | is atto liscensed? | 10:02:39 PM |
| Jason Hardin | about how costly that will be | 10:02:40 PM |
| Eric Merrill | is that where the cost is? | 10:02:46 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Jason, Martin posted there this morning. | 10:02:48 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto | 10:03:17 PM |
| jfilip | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7 | 10:03:27 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Thanks | 10:03:47 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | RIP mod/assignment | 10:04:18 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Martin Dougiamas has another small minute of silence | 10:04:36 PM |
| jfilip | Tracker issue for the mod_assignment removal? | 10:05:08 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952 | 10:05:35 PM |
| jfilip | thx | 10:05:48 PM |
| Jason Hardin | On the accessibility group i did see the email breifly this morning. It was 4;30 am when i got up to get to this meeting. I still think it is better to talk to them in the next meeting | 10:06:14 PM |
| sam marshall | (lol at gang sign) | 10:06:15 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | will mod_assignment live on as an add-on at all ? | 10:06:45 PM |
| jfilip | There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later? | 10:06:50 PM |
| Jason Hardin | the editor has been mentioned in previous meetings but I don't know that the group has been focused on the topic. | 10:06:54 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah in moodle.org/plugins | 10:06:55 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | isn't it there already? Should be | 10:07:05 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | can't add 2.7 plugins yet | 10:07:14 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Not yet. | 10:07:24 PM |
| Eric Merrill | HQ: change the feed view | 10:07:33 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | What dan said | 10:07:36 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | roger | 10:07:45 PM |
| jfilip | Is there a wiki page for this latest outcomes work? | 10:09:02 PM |
| Eric Merrill | The youtube feed is still looking at Damyon and gang | 10:09:04 PM |
| jfilip | ( / research / etc. ) | 10:09:13 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | where are you listening to Eric? | 10:09:17 PM |
| Ruslan Kabalin | It is a shame, I do not know (recognise) anyone of those 7 who is sitting at the table, can someone list their names | 10:09:23 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Raj is with Damyon | 10:09:23 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | jfilip: Not as yet. | 10:09:25 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | MDL-40230 | 10:09:27 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 - Integrate Outcomes stage 2 into core.V: 3, W: 34, Type: Bug, Assignee: Mark Nielsen, Priority: Blocker, Status: Reopened | 10:09:28 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | jfilip: basically we didn't make any decision about hiding/removing themes . I think the best it's to go to each issues. About bootstrap3 it's most likely we won't have it in 2.7. | 10:09:29 PM |
| jfilip | Thanks, Jerome. | 10:09:59 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | mouneyrac: Do you have the link to that document we made, including the BS3 details? | 10:10:07 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Ruslan Kabalin: testing my short term memory.. Jerome, XY, Rosie, Raj, David Mo, Ankit, Damyon | 10:10:23 PM |
| Marina Glancy | Jerome, XY, Rossie, Raj, DavidMo, | 10:10:28 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | See MDL-40177 about Bootstrap 3 | 10:10:33 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | yes it's in the document I lined and in the issue too | 10:10:34 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40177 - Update to Bootstrap v3.V: 7, W: 19, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 10:10:34 PM |
| Marina Glancy | I was late | 10:10:35 PM |
| Ruslan Kabalin | thanks | 10:10:44 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I still have this serious concern about the logging stuff. Look at the diff stat for https://github.com/markn86/moodle/compare/master...MDL-40063_master "Showing 35 changed files with 1,599 additions and 35 deletions. " This is a change that bring no user-visible benefit. How to we justify that huge lines-of-code count? Surely this is a clear sign that the design if flawed. | 10:11:09 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40063 - Replace add_to_log with an event trigger - mod_quiz.V: 0, W: 4, Type: Task, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Reopened | 10:11:10 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ktkigIsJrxcqPeHWcDdRANA1072JVZZ0azg0INo6v48/edit#heading=h.mhopzjiavfyi | 10:11:15 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Petr is off-screen. Lucky. | 10:11:22 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | that's the bootstrap3 link | 10:11:27 PM |
| Andrew Davis | jfilip, see https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 and https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification for the outcomes system from Moodlerooms. A document detailing what features we want based on examining the moodlerooms system as well as Totara and Elis will appear in the next few days. | 10:11:47 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Logging is eventually about analytics and notifications, real-time | 10:12:19 PM |
| danbennett | Liking the look of this! | 10:12:23 PM |
| sam marshall | logging looks nice in the UI, but we have a potential concern with performance as it's a massive cost in the current system already - especially if there are more things logged. (I.e. at the moment a typical student page view logs 1 thing - is that still true?) | 10:12:33 PM |
| Marina Glancy | We store more information about an event, that's true | 10:13:23 PM |
| sam marshall | Could we change it to chuck it into a local file or something instead, for instance? | 10:13:25 PM |
| sam marshall | (with custom logging plugin) | 10:13:30 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah sure | 10:13:33 PM |
| Marina Glancy | But you can set up not to store some | 10:13:36 PM |
| sam marshall | ah OK, single insert sounds good | 10:13:38 PM |
| jfilip | Andrew, thanks. | 10:13:43 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | the profile of Moodle will change. Some things will be slower, but some things will be faster | 10:14:01 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | MDL-34055 | 10:14:02 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34055 - Database function for fast bulk inserts.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Major, Status: Waiting for peer review | 10:14:03 PM |
| sam marshall | ok this sounds good - thanks. Just had concern because it's probably one of the slowest things at present. | 10:14:20 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | What are the different types? You mentioned "Educational", what are the others? | 10:14:34 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | well yeah that's why building analytics on top of it is a bad idea | 10:14:43 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (old logs) | 10:14:48 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I am not sure that I am convinced by the 'it is pluggable so we can do antyhing' argument. editors are pluggable, so we now have a big debate about which editor to implement, and a lot of work to do it. | 10:14:56 PM |
| sam marshall | (At OU we don't do anything that reads log table I think - we've disabled all those things.) | 10:15:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | you can ignore our editor :D | 10:15:13 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No, you can';t What we really want is one editor that works for everyone. If that is possible. | 10:15:34 PM |
| sam marshall | *nods* got it, thanks. | 10:15:48 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Plugins with special needs can listen direct to events instead of parsing logs | 10:16:16 PM |
| Marina Glancy | Another benefit is ability for reports NOT to use log table | 10:16:22 PM |
| Marina Glancy | Grr I'm always slow on this iPad | 10:16:36 PM |
| sam marshall | Great - looks good. | 10:16:41 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Petr is surprisingly quiet | 10:17:36 PM |
| sam marshall | thanks for answering all the questions | 10:17:46 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Sorry, you answered my point? | 10:18:10 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I don't think so. | 10:18:17 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Editor? | 10:18:43 PM |
| sam marshall | tim - the editor one or the thousands of lines of code one? | 10:18:51 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Which point Tim? | 10:18:59 PM |
| Tim Hunt | SO, to conver the add-to-log calls in the quiz, 35 lines of existing code are repalced by 1600 lines of new code. How is that anything other than the sign of a totally broken API? | 10:19:04 PM |
| Marina Glancy | Lines of code in logging | 10:19:10 PM |
| sam marshall | yes we see it | 10:19:12 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | yes | 10:19:16 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | no browser yet | 10:19:49 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I see the browser | 10:19:56 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | ah got it now | 10:20:01 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Perhaps some backend folks want to answer why the API is not broken | 10:20:03 PM |
| meetingroom | It is important to have more lines to have reliable, constant information | 10:20:04 PM |
| meetingroom | or quiz is broken | 10:20:15 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | No trolling please | 10:20:47 PM |
| Tim Hunt | It is important to have reliable, constant information. I am not convince that requires thousands of lines of code. | 10:20:50 PM |
| meetingroom | Sorry about that. | 10:20:56 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Moodel Meetings, woudl you like to say who you are? | 10:21:07 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Martin Dougiamas never liked all the classes nonsense | 10:21:22 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | I also have doubts about new logging - I'm not sure what are we really getting here in return for more complexity. What kind of real life issue are we solving? | 10:21:36 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Most of that is class declarations and unit tests. | 10:21:37 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Me too | 10:21:45 PM |
| sam marshall | yes breaking up here too | 10:21:45 PM |
| jfilip | Wait, Tim are you saying that 35 lines that were previously executed to write a log now goes through 1600 lines or 1600 lines is just the total of the patch? | 10:21:48 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | yes for us too | 10:21:49 PM |
| sam marshall | making quite nice bell type noises | 10:21:51 PM |
| danbennett | here too | 10:22:14 PM |
| meetingroom | Rajesh: We need to have some framework which can check adde to event | 10:22:16 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | lines of code is a stupid metric for anything. | 10:22:17 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | bad audio here too | 10:22:20 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | I'm loosing sound | 10:22:23 PM |
| bmbrands | here to | 10:22:24 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | breaking up | 10:22:24 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | yep | 10:22:29 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | speaker needs a cat5 | 10:22:33 PM |
| jfilip | Also, lines of source code doesn't translate to interpreted opcode being executed. | 10:22:53 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Yes, events are more complex than addtolog but add to log was adhoc and not guaranteed to be useful | 10:23:17 PM |
| jfilip | But, to bring it around, yes, profiling logging before / after those changes will be very important. | 10:23:20 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Dan P, in term of mainteneance, number of lines of code thta have to be written to fire one event is a reasonable metric. | 10:23:23 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | your painting an extreme picture | 10:23:37 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | yeah, less code is always better if possible | 10:23:43 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | looking at that code ~50% is unit tests | 10:23:49 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | probably another 25% is comments | 10:24:10 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | now, smartly written code can still hit the hot paths | 10:24:18 PM |
| meetingroom | Petr: please stop complaining about new events, it is part of public API since 2.6, it is nit going away, it works for new reports so far | 10:24:23 PM |
| Martín Langhoff | so it's hard to tell without reading / profiling | 10:24:28 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Dan P, if representing one event is so complex, it requires unit tests to verify the code is correct, I don't think that is a good sign. | 10:24:40 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | It's not just lines, it's a different API, thus different way of working. Switching from a single function call to an OO model had to create more lines | 10:24:50 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Fred, exactly. I see no evidence that is a good trade-off. | 10:25:10 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Everything New requires either unit or begat test s regardless of complexity. | 10:25:33 PM |
| danbennett | Juan: Sorry I couldn't hear very well. This OS X app of moodle mobile available now or with the latest release? | 10:25:33 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | is there any audio atm? | 10:25:44 PM |
| Tim Hunt | adrian, so don't require a new class for every single event. | 10:25:46 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Dan, v soon | 10:25:57 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | dan: yes | 10:25:59 PM |
| danbennett | Cool! | 10:26:07 PM |
| meetingroom | Raj: It would be nice to look at Log and live log reports changes and it gives more information and better filtering. | 10:26:26 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | We just need more people getting around this Mobile client and extending it | 10:26:38 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Am I the only person who can't hear anything? | 10:26:49 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | in the hangout? | 10:26:55 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Audio good for me | 10:27:00 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | youtube audio is fine | 10:27:02 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | I can hear but not see Juan. | 10:27:03 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | leaving and coming back | 10:27:08 PM |
| sam marshall | it worked ok for me | 10:27:22 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | audio works fine for me as well | 10:27:29 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Any change to logging would generate more test code regardless of the architecture. | 10:27:43 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Do you have many stats on the numbers of app downloads of the old versions? | 10:28:05 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | is messages.moodle.net going to serve anyone who want to use notifications out there? | 10:28:06 PM |
| meetingroom | Raj: If we don't add class then we need to process every event, which needs more processing and sometimes unreliable information (Legacy events which were added previously was good example that one line code is not always good… ) | 10:28:23 PM |
| Tim Hunt | adrian, it is a scalability thing. Does every new event requrie new unit tests, O, or does just the core of the system require unit tests, optimisation, etc. O(1). | 10:28:27 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Should be the latter. | 10:28:31 PM |
| Tim Hunt | An event is just data, not behaviour. | 10:28:57 PM |
| danbennett | Juan is there a doc for the nodewebkit/moodle mobile app stuff on moodle.org? Be interesting to see it | 10:29:00 PM |
| Tim Hunt | There should be no functionality to test. | 10:29:05 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | There is a need for data validation | 10:29:24 PM |
| Jason Fowler | the functionality and test should be of the API, not the individial events ... | 10:29:30 PM |
| Tim Hunt | JAson, yes, but that is not how it currently works. | 10:29:48 PM |
| Jason Fowler | but if each event is it's own function, then a unit test will be required... | 10:29:57 PM |
| Jason Fowler | in theory | 10:30:04 PM |
| meetingroom | Events don't get introduced every day. It should be tested and added with proper thought. | 10:30:05 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | I asked about download stats for the app | 10:30:05 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Exactly. 'IF; | 10:30:08 PM |
| jleyva@jabber.org | https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop | 10:30:32 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Links for integration update: [1] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 |
10:30:34 PM |
| danbennett | Thans Juan! | 10:30:47 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Nope | 10:31:27 PM |
| sam marshall | we can hear you dan | 10:31:27 PM |
| sam marshall | cibot looks suspiciously like a smurf | 10:31:49 PM |
| jleyva@jabber.org | Aparup messages.moodle.net is only for registered Moodle sites | 10:32:48 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | 10:32:59 PM | |
| Tim Hunt | cime | 10:33:12 PM |
| Jason Fowler | cime doesn't pay ... | 10:33:33 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | :D | 10:33:47 PM |
| jfilip | cime is great | 10:33:56 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | comme ci, comme ca | 10:34:09 PM |
| David Monllaó | I'm addicted to cime | 10:34:18 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | MDLSITE-2662 | 10:34:20 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 - First public runs of prechecker against various criteria.V: 1, W: 5, Type: Task, Assignee: Eloy Lafuente (stronk7), Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 10:34:21 PM |
| danbennett | Just been asked by Ray Lawrence whether theres any info regarding decisions of server requirements for 2.7 if thats able to be covered today. (Don't shoot the messenger!! :P) | 10:35:14 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | it's NOT perfect??? | 10:35:15 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | cime watch! | 10:35:18 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | We do shifter checks on all issues, but its a different bot | 10:35:59 PM |
| sam marshall | phpunit which is easy to install and behat which is impossible to install ;) | 10:36:03 PM |
| Ankit Agarwal | Mdk ftw | 10:36:35 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | No. Behat is easy | 10:36:36 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | with less compiler being considered to go into core as the in-built thing - any same ideas for shifter? | 10:36:43 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No it isn't. | 10:36:45 PM |
| Tim Hunt | It is getting easier. | 10:36:50 PM |
| David Monllaó | Ask OU bosses to let you install serious OS | 10:36:57 PM |
| Tim Hunt | LOL | 10:37:03 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | lol | 10:37:04 PM |
| sam marshall | good idea, but | 10:37:09 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Dan Bennet: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.7_release_notes | 10:37:11 PM |
| danbennett | Martin: Yeah I did say to him ... thanks | 10:37:28 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | that's current, AFAIK | 10:37:38 PM |
| danbennett | for now ;) haha | 10:37:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I doubt it will change further | 10:38:02 PM |
| danbennett | ok | 10:38:06 PM |
| David Monllaó | Please, report issues and we can work on them | 10:38:14 PM |
| sam marshall | I know I'm going to have to make behat work (for the conditional activity thing) and am dreading it | 10:39:05 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | then you will love it | 10:39:22 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Actually, sam, it works for me now. | 10:39:26 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Except that I get random failures. | 10:39:31 PM |
| Ruslan Kabalin | Dan P, great slides! | 10:39:51 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Be hat + phantomjs is great (even on windows) | 10:39:55 PM |
| sam marshall | tim - Oh, it works now? Are there instructions? Thanks for reassurance, sorry I should be less sarcastic then | 10:40:08 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yes, nice slides! | 10:40:12 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Sarcasm is good. | 10:40:21 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://gist.github.com/danpoltawski/8036489 | 10:40:33 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Thats David Monllao serving up a paella | 10:40:42 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I really ought to copy that to docs. | 10:40:44 PM |
| Frédéric Massart | LOL | 10:40:50 PM |
| danbennett | Great pic lol | 10:40:51 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Looks good. | 10:40:56 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Paella! | 10:41:00 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | So we want to fix coding style in the line that happened to be edited for another purpose - e.g. https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43040 (I think that's a good idea, why not) | 10:41:13 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Also that's exactly what behat code looks like | 10:41:21 PM |
| David Monllaó | Aparup's home rules | 10:41:26 PM |
| Adam Olley | screenshot - i like that | 10:42:46 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Or have no wwwroot | 10:43:10 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Damyon: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43246#comment-265751 | 10:43:18 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Quite a long time == overnight. | 10:43:34 PM |
| Tim Hunt | OK 4 or 6 hours for me. | 10:44:07 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | on windows? | 10:44:12 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Yes. | 10:44:15 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | About the same for me. | 10:44:21 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Is that a subtle hint about how to bribe the integrators. | 10:44:33 PM |
| Tim Hunt | ? | 10:44:36 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Thanks tim, will look first thing tomorrow | 10:44:45 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | There was a problem found in Linux with ext4, that our tests took something like 10x longer than ext3 …. perhaps someone else can elaborate | 10:45:07 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (I know it sounds crazy) | 10:45:20 PM |
| jfilip | There are fs options you can add to ext4 mount points to make them run a lot faster. | 10:45:43 PM |
| sam marshall | I missed the thing about docblocks/backports - is there a url for this policy? | 10:45:52 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | AFAIK no-one here found them | 10:45:58 PM |
| Tim Hunt | sam, yes. | 10:46:04 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Scroll back. | 10:46:10 PM |
| sam marshall | oh sorry | 10:46:15 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Reject | 10:46:47 PM |
| jfilip | This is what I use for ext4 on my workstation -- rw,noatime,seclabel,nobarrier,nouser_xattr,errors=remount-ro | 10:46:48 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | thanks Justin, hope that helps someone | 10:47:18 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | i heard about a blackbook Dan | 10:47:33 PM |
| sam marshall | the bit about doc blocks in backports doesn't seem to be mentioned in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting unless I am missing something | 10:47:52 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Hopefully the code freeze will be more relaxed for you this time | 10:47:54 PM |
| jfilip | But, yeah, when I first switched to ext4 a year or two ago I did notice a dramatic slowdown until I did some digging for options to speed it up. | 10:48:04 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Sounds like the new MySQl | 10:48:30 PM |
| jfilip | So, is the code freeze for 2.7 going to be a code freeze or more of a light frost? | 10:48:56 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | We discuss in I team and agree, then someone has to update the doc. It will happen soon | 10:49:01 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Very cold. | 10:49:09 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Soon(TM) | 10:49:21 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I missed the key number. Is this 2.7 or 2.6 that will be LTS? | 10:49:43 PM |
| jfilip | No more integrating non-bug fix work the week or two before scheduled release? | 10:49:47 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | 2.7 | 10:50:19 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | No integrating half done things the week before freeze | 10:50:32 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Oh. Woldn't it be better to do risky infrastrucutre chagnes after the LTR? | 10:50:40 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | jfilip: we are very firm about it in the integration team for this release | 10:50:55 PM |
| jfilip | Damyon: *cheers* | 10:51:00 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Will the LTS version need backports of all bugs? | 10:51:20 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | If it's based on usage/installation, you'll never be able to drop it | 10:51:31 PM |
| marxjohnson00 | people will always avoid upgrades unless they have to, look at WinXP | 10:51:49 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Dan Poltawski just wonders about alll.. the bug fixes | 10:52:00 PM |
| sam marshall | Is no there a distinction on which bugs? | 10:52:03 PM |
| sam marshall | because there are LOADS of bugfixes and some are not very serious and it's been broken forever | 10:52:15 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | IMO, the important thing is security and serious bugfixes | 10:52:40 PM |
| sam marshall | OK | 10:52:40 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | some of the nigly bugs people can livewith | 10:52:51 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (and often they can cause small changes in behaviour) | 10:53:04 PM |
| jfilip | New JIRA label for lts bugs? =) | 10:53:05 PM |
| Adam Olley | was it mentioned how long roughly it'd be LTS'd for? | 10:53:25 PM |
| sam marshall | 3 yrs | 10:53:44 PM |
| sam marshall | (just echoing Martin for chat | 10:53:49 PM |
| Tim Hunt | So, 2.7, 2.13, 2.19 ? | 10:53:49 PM |
| Adam Olley | thanks sam | 10:53:54 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | -1 to lag | 10:54:20 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | its like prerecording the meeting, and then watching it again and discusisng it | 10:54:50 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (in fact that would prob work better) | 10:54:56 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Also chat not archived with video | 10:54:58 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Also Google | 10:55:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yeah, the streaming is great, its just the interaction which is a problem | 10:55:28 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | it's designed for broadcasting really | 10:55:52 PM |
| jfilip | It's nice that Hangouts on Air have 720p video now. It makes a shared browser window actually readable. =) | 10:56:07 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (wait for the lag, michael :P) | 10:56:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I'd prefer open source and BBB but it was just falling short with larger numbers | 10:56:15 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | Offtopic: Looking to Michael in the darkness... and the reflection on his glasses... do you know F.lux? It works great: http://justgetflux.com | 10:56:15 PM |
| jfilip | +1 to f.lux | 10:56:34 PM |
| danbennett | F.lux is wonderful | 10:56:35 PM |
| jfilip | =) | 10:56:36 PM |
| danbennett | GoToMeeting at all Michael? just a thought | 10:56:53 PM |
| sam marshall | i think that's about cvhanging screen brightness | 10:56:54 PM |
| danbennett | Not free tho to be fair | 10:57:05 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Needs to cope with 100 people | 10:57:11 PM |
| jfilip | Michael, we've got someone on our team doing a personal project to research shared communication / meeting systems. If something interesting comes out of it we'll share the findings. | 10:57:18 PM |
| sam marshall | we could code one ourself! I just built a voice recorder using html5, it's totally reliable*. | 10:57:29 PM |
| sam marshall | * I am lying | 10:57:34 PM |
| danbennett | Maybe a Moodle video conference plugin? lol | 10:57:42 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | no f.lux is for your screen brightness .. | 10:57:44 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | we coudl stream to youtube on top of whatever we do, no? | 10:58:02 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | btw mic unplugged michael? | 10:58:12 PM |
| sam marshall | oops audio cut off? or just me? oh it's back | 10:58:13 PM |
| jfilip | Smoke signals and really powerful telescopes. | 10:58:17 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | back now | 10:58:23 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | now yes | 10:58:23 PM |
| sam marshall | cut off again | 10:58:31 PM |
| sam marshall | back | 10:58:32 PM |
| sam marshall | 10:58:33 PM | |
| Aparup Banerjee | mic gone soft | 10:58:37 PM |
| danbennett | Seems the mic has some kind of crazy limiter lol | 10:58:38 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | lol | 10:58:42 PM |
| sam marshall | oops, cut out again.. | 10:58:47 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | v quiet | 10:58:47 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah | 10:58:48 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Over to yuo... | 10:59:16 PM |
| sam marshall | NSA | 10:59:17 PM |
| Matthew Spurrier | jfilip: i certainly wouldn't recommend using nobarrier, you lose power, you have the potential to lose a lot of data.. also noatime,nodiratime are risky for auditing/security purposes | 10:59:26 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Too many torrents | 10:59:34 PM |
| jfilip | Matt, it's just my workstation on a battery backup. | 10:59:57 PM |
| jfilip | It's not a server. =) | 11:00:06 PM |
| Matthew Spurrier | yah, just pointing it out, just in case ;) | 11:00:14 PM |
| jfilip | Yeah, you're correct. For something that is "important" or might go down, poorly, those options won't really work. | 11:00:39 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Nigel McNie (former Catalyst/Mahara) was working on a VC type solution. I'll ping him and find out | 11:00:46 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | BBB had a new release | 11:00:58 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Audio is breaking up for me. Am I alone? | 11:01:19 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | audio seems fine here | 11:01:35 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Do they have an Epic for this in the tracker? | 11:02:00 PM |
| meetingroom | half of the gradebook proposal comes from David Mudrak… | 11:03:30 PM |
| Tim Hunt | For the Aus cahgnes? | 11:03:34 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Would be good to group them with an Epic. | 11:03:42 PM |
| Tim Hunt | You can add it to the meeting notes later. | 11:03:58 PM |
| Tim Hunt | OK | 11:04:22 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Rex asked the questions | 11:05:04 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | I've been booted and can't get back in. That's telling for Hangouts. | 11:05:23 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | there have been 2 this week.. | 11:06:13 PM |
| meetingroom | no major changes expected, just more improvements | 11:06:20 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | bootstrapwood is coming back! | 11:06:26 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | apart from the two this week, Petr? | 11:06:33 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I asked earlier if we ahd to convert events in our add-ons when we ugprade to 2.6,and Petr said wait for 2.7. | 11:06:34 PM |
| danbennett | Once you go bootstrap you never go booback | 11:06:35 PM |
| sam marshall | Random question: what's up with the namespace stuff in code - are we supposed to use that for all new core code in 2.7? If so is it documented? | 11:06:35 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Sam: MDLSITE-2549 | 11:07:02 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2549 - Rules for namespacing.V: 0, W: 7, Type: Bug, Assignee: Dan Poltawski, Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 11:07:03 PM |
| Tim Hunt | https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14661 https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14662 | 11:07:05 PM |
| Tim Hunt | No docs in the 2.6 release notes to explain the events changes. | 11:07:20 PM |
| sam marshall | Thanks Dan! So, it is not yet defined? OK | 11:07:22 PM |
| Tomasz Muras | yeah, I've put GS there | 11:08:03 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=239646 Prateek is on as well | 11:08:06 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | MDL-31989 | 11:08:18 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31989 - Global Search 2.V: 48, W: 56, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Prateek Sachan, Priority: Major, Status: Open | 11:08:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | sam marshall: i'm afraid its a bit undefined yep | 11:08:29 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | What is the link to the Moodle Docs? | 11:08:34 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | For new features, will they still be tested/supported on base? | 11:08:34 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | its another one on the integration team list | 11:08:58 PM |
| sam marshall | dan - Let's say I start building the conditional availability changes tomorrow, am I okay to not learn how to use namespaces? Is the question. | 11:09:06 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | If its in core still, then yes | 11:09:07 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Martin Dougiamas: Reload the wiki page, someone added a line | 11:09:09 PM |
| jfilip | Rex, that came up earlier: yes. New UI changes should be tested on Base and Clean. | 11:09:09 PM |
| Jenny Gray | Another random question: what's happening (if anything) with survey 2.0? | 11:09:17 PM |
| Tim Hunt | I found it hard to believe! | 11:09:19 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | I really hate people "registering" words like "task" and others without any control. We should not allow first-to-land-wins liberty there. But look for a limited vocabulary. (after thinking about it like 10^6 times) | 11:09:30 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Ther is a link to the tracker issue, but htat is all. | 11:09:43 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | More important than name spaces is auto loading, which is great | 11:09:48 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading | 11:09:58 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Shall I create a MDLSITE? | 11:10:04 PM |
| Tim Hunt | For docs for how to upgrade your add-on? | 11:10:12 PM |
| sam marshall | damyon - auto loading used to work without namespaces, not sure it still does or not | 11:10:18 PM |
| Prateek Sachan | Hi Aparup, Tomasz! | 11:10:21 PM |
| jfilip | MDL-39797 - New events infrastructure https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.6_release_notes#For_developers:_API_changes |
11:10:22 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39797 - META: Events 2.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Epic, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Closed | 11:10:23 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | just tell petr to stop removing dev_docs_required off his issues with 1 line | 11:10:23 PM |
| Tim Hunt | That is system spect, not advice for add-on authros. | 11:10:26 PM |
| sam marshall | (Dan - thanks for doc) | 11:10:49 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Auto loading works with or without | 11:10:53 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Hi Prateek | 11:10:57 PM |
| danbennett | Oooh pretty new homepage | 11:12:12 PM |
| sam marshall | i like the colours | 11:12:33 PM |
| Prateek Sachan | Everything is pretty good. | 11:13:18 PM |
| Tim Hunt | MDLSITE-2710 | 11:13:18 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2710 - The Moodle 2.6 release notes need to make it clear to add-on authors how to upgrade their plugins for the events changes.V: 0, W: 0, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 11:13:19 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Thanks all | 11:14:20 PM |
| sam marshall | thanks everyone sorry for the people who stayed up late... | 11:14:21 PM |
| danbennett | Great stuff! | 11:14:33 PM |
| jfilip | Thanks, all. | 11:14:37 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | next dev mtg? | 11:14:40 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Cya | 11:14:41 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 3 months | 11:14:44 PM |
| Andrew Davis | night all | 11:14:45 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | byeee | 11:14:49 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | roger gdnite! | 11:14:53 PM |
| Adam Olley | 2am is a perfectly acceptable sleep time :P | 11:14:58 PM |
| bmbrands | bye all | 11:15:02 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | rave! | 11:15:02 PM |
| Jenny Gray | sam - was this the music you wanted to end on? | 11:15:04 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Thanks everyone - have a great yesterday | 11:15:04 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | off to find an air conditioner now | 11:15:05 PM |
| Ankit Agarwal | Bye! | 11:15:10 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | I need a burger. | 11:15:15 PM |
| Sam Hemelryk | Perfect timing with the music | 11:15:19 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) | 11:15:22 PM | |
| meetingroom | Thanks all | 11:15:53 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | sam: david fixed the cygwin problem | 11:17:20 PM |
| Ruslan Kabalin | Bye, thanks everyone | 11:17:21 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | and we need help from newbies identifiying the gaps in the intructions | 11:17:56 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | its practiaclly the same as phpunit in terms of setup, except that unlike phpunit it needs a webserver and browser server | 11:20:04 PM |
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