Developer meeting February 2012

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Developer meetings > February 2012 meeting notes

Time 01:00 UTC on Tuesday, 28 February 2012
Meeting room OpenMeeting room in Moodle Dev Meeting Course

In this meeting we focussed on activities outside Moodle HQ.

Attendees

At varying times there were roughly 50 attendees.

Adam Olley, Andrew Nicols, Andrew Davis, Buck Ng, Damyon Wiese, Dan Marsden, Dercy Christ, David Mudrák, Eloy Lafuente, Gareth Barnard, Gavin Henrick, Helen Foster, Itamar Tzadok, Jennifer Edmondson, Julian Ridden, Kanika Goyal, Mark Drechsler, Mary Cooch, Matt Oquist, Mayank Gupta, Minh-Tam Nguyen, Paul Nicholls, Petr Škoda, Ramesh Jambulingam, Ray Lawrence, Rex Lorenzo, Sam Hemelryk, Shane Elliot, Simon Coggins, Stephen Bourget, Tim Hunt, Yangmun Choi, Yiannis Arapoglou (and possibly more).

At Moodle HQ: Adrian Greeve, Ankit Agarwal, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Romiro, Dan Poltawski, Dongsheng Cai, Gerard (Gerry) Caulfield, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Marina Glancy, Martin Dougiamas, Michael de Raadt, Rossiani Wijaya, Rajesh Taneja, Tim Barker

Notes

The following are notes taken from the meeting. If you feel anything is missing, please edit this page this page or email Michael d.

Assignment module redevelopment (Invited speaker: Damyon Wiese from Netspot)

  • Work on the new assignment module was prompted by a collective idea from multiple universities in Australia and New Zealand.
  • A Specification document was started at HQ and work has begun at Netspot with a draft up for review.
  • There will still be support for Assignment types with new, inactive assignment class (mod_assign).
  • Some aspects of the new assignment will be modular, for example, there will be submission plugins that can work in combination.
  • Developers will need to consider how proposed feedback plugins work with Advanced grading plugins, or if they are the same.
  • The new assignment will support plagiarism, comments and other plugins.
  • Upgrading to the new assignment should work, but there are still considerations that need to be discussed.
  • Draft submissions will still be possible and submission deletion may be possible.
  • The first release will support everything that the previous assignment did and will work with the gradebook.
  • There is a meta issue with subtasks to be completed for Moodle 2.3.

Proposed changes utilising YUI3 Ajax (Andrew Nicols from LUNS)

New module selector

  • A new module chooser was demonstrated for adding modules to the course page; it is similar to the question type chooser in the question bank.
  • Resources appear at the top and activities appear below this, although changes may be made to alleviate confusion between resources and activities.
  • Help is displayed on each activity/resource.
  • The chooser resizes to suit screen size and will be themeable.
  • The chooser responds to keyboard input, so it should be accessible, but this will need to be tested (feedback welcome).

Collapsed forms

  • A modifications to form rendering that collapses forms, initially showing only sections with required fields.
  • The view of a settings page isn't "sticky" (maintained between views), but it could be in future.
  • It may be possible to force sections open if necessary from within the form definition.
  • It has been proposed to allow opening and closing of all sections in a form.
  • With JavaScript off, forms still work - just like they do now.
  • Keyboard expansion is possible, so it should be accessible, but this will need to be checked.
  • The OU has been doing some similar work: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Question_editing_form_improvements

Ajax course editing

  • LUNS has been working on Ajax course editing, which they have improved to use YUI3
  • Several bugs were removed when doing this work.
  • The team is now working on block moving with Ajax (previously tried and failed).
  • Quick renaming of link titles on course page is a possibility.
  • There will be a need to work out how this will work with new paged formats.

GSOC2012 (Google Summer of Code)

  • Moodle was involved in GSOC last year and this was successful.
  • Two students involved with GSOC are now working at HQ.
  • We will be applying this week to be an "organisation" for GSOC2012.
  • If you have project ideas (something that can be handled as a plugin), please contribute it as a project for a new developer.
  • Also, anyone willing to be a mentor should contact Michael d.

Hackfests

  • Belgium meeting was good. See meeting notes.
  • There is a plan to host a Hackfest in Perth, Australia, in October (Hacktoberfest). We would like as many people as possible from overseas. Start planning to travel join us. Details coming soon.

Moodle 2.3 progress

Files usability

  • Files usability was the number one most annoying issue reported by Argh! Survey respondants.
  • Apparently, while the ideas are good, the current interface sucks.
  • There are lots of issues that need discussion, but progess is being made.
  • Drag-and-drop support is coming, as is a quick upload button, multiple files at the same time and lots more.
  • Licencing information will now be more available and the type of licence information collected will be flexible.
  • Making the interface work better and be themable is possible.
  • Mock-ups have been worked on. Keep your eye on the page above in the next few weeks.

External files support

  • Work is being done to allows users to pick files from a repository without copying to Moodle (cached and checked for updates).
  • This will also work for internal sources as well.
  • Equella interface worked on closely with HQ devs.

Available update notifications

  • Admins will be able to check if their plugins are up-to-date.
  • Moodle.org will allow you to check on the plugins you have installed (if you are registered) or get a list of all plugin versions that can be matched to your installed plugins (if not registered)
  • This is a possible incentive to upgrade and register.
  • Future versions are intended to allow you to update within Moodle.

Multi-tenancy

  • The plan is moving away from single codebase + single database to a wrapper that manages multiple Moodle sites, possibly on the same codebase.
  • There is a lot of discussion about this at the page linked above.

Book

  • We are planning to integrate the Book module into core as a resource in 2.3.

New Developers page

  • Currently shows people who have committed to core code.
  • The system will include contribution to Tracker and CONTRIB work in future.

Questions from the audience

Status of "Accessibility compliance for 2.3", particularly "TinyMCE generates invalid nested list code", which isn't really a problem with TinyMCE, but with using an old version of HTML Purifier. This is a big problem for us for our collaboration sites and would love to have the fix considered to be put into the next sprint.
  • We've started including these issues in STABLE sprints. Our goal is to resolve as many of these as we can before 2.3.

Meeting chat log

Jennifer Edmondson: Just testing :)
Petr Škoda: test
Petr Škoda: test
Tim Hunt: Hello
Dan Marsden: Hi Tim
Tim Hunt: This had better be worth staying up for.
Dan Marsden: hehe
Tim Hunt: The OpenMeetings UI makes Moodle look like a paragon of usability good-practice.
Dan Marsden: yeah - will be interesting to see how well it performs compared to elluminate
Moodle HQ: hello guys
Tim Hunt: Oh I remember last time. If you wanted to have teh UI full-screen on your big monitor, you had to use firebug to hack the width/height in teh HTML.
Dan Marsden: anyone figured out a way to open it without the moodle theme header taking up that screen real estate?
Andrew Nicols: Just trying to remember how to make it full width too
Moodle HQ: Last time we couldn't do that, but it may have been improved.
Tim Hunt: I'm sure there was a way ot make the user list more compact.
Dan Poltawski: click the hide button
Dan Poltawski: on the right of it
Tim Hunt: I don't mean to hide it. I mean to be able to see more names at one time.
Dan Marsden: I just tried to load it using the path to the iframe here but that didn't work either
Gareth Barnard: Hello - I loved iMoot and am interested in developents so stayed up to join in :)
Tim Hunt: I jsut increased the height.
Gavin Henrick: Morning, or is it evening, or I will stick to Morning..
Moodle HQ: How did you do that, Tim.
Damyon Wiese: Hi Everyone
Andrew Nicols: If you inspect the page with firebug/chrome inspector
Tim Hunt: Inspect the HTML. there is a hard-coded height="640" somewhere that you can make bigger with firebug
Andrew Nicols: find the iframe, and change the height to fit your screen. On my 1280x960, 900 worked well
Andrew Nicols: Alas, the width isn't so easy to adjust
Gareth Barnard: I've used the zoom function of Chrome under the spanner to help and full screen mode.
Rex Lorenzo: can someone speak so that I can test to make sure my audio is working?
Ray Lawrence: is there any sound?
Dan Marsden: not yet
Dan Poltawski: we're trying to expand the window here
Dan Marsden: ooo
Rex Lorenzo: working
Paul Nicholls: it does
Matt Oquist: hi Tim!
Dan Poltawski: yes
Ray Lawrence: yes
Gavin Henrick: uhuh
Gareth Barnard: yes
Damyon Wiese: yep
Stephen Bourget: yes
Darcy Christ: yes
Tim Hunt: Right. So now I need to shut up and let Michael and Martin run things.
Tim Hunt: Yay! Hi
David Mudrák: hi everybody
Paul Nicholls: The streaming audio/video from HQ keeps coming and going here (in NZ)
Dan Poltawski: Paul: I think thats intentional
Tim Hunt: I think we found last time that if everyone tries to use video it goes horribly worng.
Gavin Henrick: yup
Damyon Wiese: Me too - audio is in and out - not sure if it will be the same for you listening
David Mudrák: Same here, sounds has huge gaps of silence
Gavin Henrick: I wonder is it more the openmeetings server limits we are hitting
Sam Hemelryk: Yip poor sound
Gavin Henrick: cos we have videos. but sounds is gone
Ray Lawrence: no sound
Kanika Goyal: Same here, the sound is breaking here as well.
Jennifer Edmondson: Sound is breaking up here as well
Andrew Nicols: Sound is cutting out continually here
Gavin Henrick: I think you will need to kill video from everyone, and try just sound.
Dan Marsden: Maybe if Michael kills his webcam it might help?
Mayank Gupta: Soemwhat better! It still breaks though
Damyon Wiese: Was a little better
Andrew Nicols: It looks like something (openmeeting?) is cutting you out if it thinks you're not speaking
Jennifer Edmondson: That's better
Andrew Nicols: We can hear you
Mary Cooch: better
Dan Marsden: that's pretty good
Stephen Bourget: better
Tim Hunt: So, two-hour monologue from Martin, without even a pause for breath ;-)
David Mudrák: Is there a way to make the chat bigger?
David Mudrák: :-S
Gavin Henrick: sounds liek a wind tunnel
Gavin Henrick: louder. wind tunnel
Jennifer Edmondson: aaa
Dan Marsden: wow
Andrew Nicols: that's worse
Gavin Henrick: hurricane!
Paul Nicholls: that's really bad now :P
Dan Marsden: ouch
Sam Hemelryk: stop
Rex Lorenzo: wow.. it's worst
Sam Hemelryk: Wow
Shane Elliott: ouch
Ray Lawrence: yeek
Sam Hemelryk: Horrid sound
David Mudrák: the background is cool, reminds me engines in the plane
Damyon Wiese: better
Matt Oquist: better
Paul Nicholls: that's better
Jennifer Edmondson: better
Rex Lorenzo: better
Gavin Henrick: back, so small tropical storm..
Mary Cooch: better
Paul Nicholls: still a bit crackly when you speak loudly
Andrew Nicols: Bit of audio clipping but it's bearable
Stephen Bourget: yes
Matt Oquist: /me waves
Rex Lorenzo: yes
Yangmun Choi: yes
Paul Nicholls: 2PM is a much better time (New Zealand) ;-)
Andrew Davis: I cant hear anything. do i have to click a "let me hear the jet engine" button?
Tim Hunt: We can hear
Mayank Gupta: Andrew: you would like to refresh the page. I had the same problem
Andrew Davis: ok. thanks :)
Mary Cooch: YES
Tim Hunt: Yay!!
Ray Lawrence: yes
Gareth Barnard: Yes#
Gavin Henrick: ireland :)
Ray Lawrence: yawn
Andrew Nicols: Yup - 1amm
Mary Cooch: hi all
Mary Cooch: staying up? I am in bed
Helen Foster: hello!
David Mudrák: yawn
Yiannis Arapoglou: Greece :) 3 am!
Mary Cooch: :)
Gareth Barnard: I'm in bed hence no webcam ;)
Andrew Nicols: Audio clipping is still quite bad
Mark Drechsler: Hi all :)
Gavin Henrick: feedback and wind tunnel
Rex Lorenzo: better
Jennifer Edmondson: Great
Mark Drechsler: That sounds good.
Dan Marsden: that's it
David Mudrák: yay!
Moodle HQ: yep can hear you fine damyon
Helen Foster: I just turned hq mike off
Ray Lawrence: better
Matt Oquist: yes, much better
Mark Drechsler: Massey
Moodle HQ: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Assignment
Moodle HQ: (everyone at Moodle HQ under Michael's name here)
Andrew Davis: if anyone cant get sound you need to test your mic when this loads. If you dont you cant hear anything :\
Paul Nicholls: Sounds sensible - writing a complete assignment type to add an audio recorder was a bit of a nuisance
Ray Lawrence: what will be in first release?
David Mudrák: I guess each Assignment instance can contain 0..1 instance os subplugins right?
Paul Nicholls: The main issue in my mind is usability - needs to be very intuitive for teachers to set up assignments
Tim Hunt: Do the plguins use renderers?
Rex Lorenzo: how will backup and restore work with this new assignment module.. migrating older assignments.
Ray Lawrence: So release 1 = mirror legacy assignment + feedback plugin?
Tim Hunt: In new code. All HTML should be generated by renderers.
David Mudrák: I think Tim refers to the rendeing API - get_renderer() and friends
Ray Lawrence: no sound
Julian Ridden: Am I right in assuming it is Damyon's dishes I am hearing?
Tim Hunt: Feel free to ask me about this outside this meeting.
Tim Hunt: Now is not the time.
Moodle HQ: Renderers allow themes to override the HTML
Julian Ridden: no worries
Tim Hunt: Exactly
Moodle HQ: MD: Sam Hemelryk is going to be peer reviewing your work and doing integration
Sam Hemelryk: Hi :)
Tim Hunt: Sam understands renderes, so that is OK.
Ray Lawrence: ETA for anonymous marking?
Dan Marsden: feedback...
Rex Lorenzo: Is there a smooth upgrade path for older courses/assignments?
Ray Lawrence: ok = Send for marking No in current
Moodle HQ: or audio recording
Andrew Nicols: Someone asked before about backup/restore from older versions too?
Moodle HQ: MD: Should be as early as possible during install ... still getting complaints about delayed Files upgrade in 2.0
Ray Lawrence: good question on backups
Julian Ridden: what about deleting submitted assignments - ala deleting quiz attempts. A much requested feature in tracker. Only feature I am aware of in current assignment is a revert to draft in advanced assignment
Moodle HQ: MD: think it needs to be possible to restore mod/assignment
Ray Lawrence: so I back up a course today, restore post 2.3 - converions will be automatic?
Tim Hunt: Ray, it should be
Mark Drechsler: Small things like that could come later.
Ray Lawrence: is it small?
Rex Lorenzo: Ray, from my understanding he wasn't planning on "restoring mod_assignment (old) to mod_assign (new)"
Ray Lawrence: plent yof expectations about backups out there
David Mudrák: I can see a potential collision in subplugins trying to access/convert same data from the original mod_assignment
Andrew Nicols: There's a mention of multiple markers in the spec, but it's down as out of scope... is that because it's technically difficult, or because it's not required much for your users?
Itamar Tzadok: any changes to integration with gradebook?
David Mudrák: ok
Gavin Henrick: Have you identified the commonly used plugins which calls the assignment data and engaged with the authors about the changes they would need to make or what the imapct would be?
Mark Drechsler: Gotta run folks - thanks to Damo for all the work on this to date :)
Ray Lawrence: sound cutting out
Moodle HQ: sound ok here
Gavin Henrick: more meant plugins using the data
Gavin Henrick: like listing the assignemtns to be marked.
Gavin Henrick: but nm :)
Julian Ridden: you mean like reporting plugins? custom report block Gavin?
Moodle HQ: MD: Any more questions?
Ray Lawrence: can you list on docs page expectations for eta on different modes
Andrew Nicols: Good stuff!
Mary Cooch: cool
Sam Hemelryk: Tomorrow perhaps even!
Damyon Wiese: Thanks everyone
Helen Foster: sounds great, thanks Damyon
David Mudrák: promising, x fingers
Julian Ridden: Thanks Damyon. Very exciting developments
Mary Cooch: yes
Jennifer Edmondson: Yes
Julian Ridden: yup
Tim Hunt: A bit quiet
Gavin Henrick: sound okay here
Tim Hunt: No worries. it is OK.
Matt Oquist: right. no clipping! :)
Moodle HQ: yes
Matt Oquist: looks good here
Paul Nicholls: yep
Julian Ridden: yes
Mayank Gupta: Yes!
Rex Lorenzo: is there a link to these screenshots? spec?
Dan Marsden: nice
Tim Hunt: I think it gets too big. I think you should separate resources and activities again.
Paul Nicholls: Looks good - we were considering doing this sort of thing ourselves last year, but didn't get around to it before losing a developer...
Ray Lawrence: yuk
Ray Lawrence: scrolling
Paul Nicholls: but yes, putting resources and activities into one list does seem a bit big
Julian Ridden: I kind of agree of Tim. Especially when more 3rd party are added hat list is just core I think
Ray Lawrence: agree
Tim Hunt: Please can you re-implement the question-bank code based on your code. It looke more robust than mine.
Ray Lawrence: not generally
Moodle HQ: Soon Assignments will be just one item :)
Gavin Henrick: Would it be better to group them into content, assessment, collaboration ? :)
Ray Lawrence: more lines
Paul Nicholls: also if you can move the "add a new..." link and make it more prominent, that'd be good - it blends into the list of resources/activities in the section at present
Ray Lawrence: adding those cats
Moodle HQ: MD: It's just being held up by the course format changes we were planning
Ray Lawrence: Gavin: which cat. would forum go in?
Moodle HQ: MD: Accessible?
Gavin Henrick: Could you make the left column into expandable parts rather than scroll?
Moodle HQ: MD: Basically this is exactly what I was hoping for
Ray Lawrence: yup
Tim Hunt: I think it si at least as accessible as the filepicker ;-)
Ray Lawrence: horizontal
Gavin Henrick: like that course settings bit I have seen
Damyon Wiese: If you meant the assignment subtypes - they won't be there anymore
Damyon Wiese: (re: expanding)
Moodle HQ: MD: We need to restore all the help strings that someone deleted in 2.0 (grr)
Ray Lawrence: I am still concerned about the RH text - can you explain for me :)
Julian Ridden: i love the idea.
Gavin Henrick: collapsable sections... from the settings page
Gavin Henrick: nm
Julian Ridden: Damyon beat me to it..expanding subitems perhaps..all resources perhaps under one twsity and activities under another.
Gareth Barnard: Instead of 'Add a new resource...' to 'Add a new item' to avoid confusion?
Moodle HQ: MD: yeah we need much more help there. Links to docs, examples, use cases, etc
Moodle HQ: MD: Totally
Ray Lawrence: would a 3 column layout help
Ray Lawrence: number?
Ray Lawrence: missed that
Andrew Nicols: MDL-30615
Paul Nicholls: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-30615
Gareth Barnard: Cool
Moodle HQ: MD: Terrific
Julian Ridden: nice
Darcy Christ: great idea!
Moodle HQ: MD: What settings are there to turn that on and off?
Andrew Nicols: MDL-30637
Paul Nicholls: Like the configurability/flexibility
Tim Hunt: We have some similare ... Yes
Tim Hunt: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Question_editing_form_improvements
Minh-Tam Nguyen: can the visibility of one section be influenced by the another settign?
Kanika Goyal: great!
Tim Hunt: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Question_editing_form_improvements#The_subtleties_about_collapsing_forms
Moodle HQ: MD: Without JS are they all open?
Ray Lawrence: are the settngs sticky?
Ray Lawrence: per user
Ray Lawrence: boo
Julian Ridden: tie it in to ajax course editing option in profile perhaps?
Moodle HQ: MD: That would be a lot of cookies or user prefs
Ray Lawrence: how hard is that to do?
Ray Lawrence: pain to have to re-open
Ray Lawrence: more than show advanced?
Itamar Tzadok: Are editors initialized in collapsed sections?
Gavin Henrick: It is cool :)
Gareth Barnard: I've used cookies and simple JS for toggling
Dan Poltawski: the problem is the number of forms and settings
Ray Lawrence: General help for me... how can I see screen share and chat without having to minimise SS winsow?
Itamar Tzadok: actually it's not that difficult
Moodle HQ: MD: Could possibly get all the states for one form into one cookie
Itamar Tzadok: sure
Moodle HQ: MD: Keyboard expansion?
Tim Hunt: We did collapsing of the HTML editor tools.
Tim Hunt: But that does not save page-load time.
Gareth Barnard: Can be done in one cookie with sub cookies and compressed binary string
Dan Marsden: aren't cookies banned now?
Dan Marsden: MDL-28631
Tim Hunt: Better to use get/set_uiser preferecne, which you can also do in Ajax code.
Tim Hunt: Colin implemented that in our code.
Dan Poltawski: we can add this if the main feature getsin!
Gavin Henrick: Does the cookie method follow european laws on cookies? :)
Tim Hunt: https://github.com/timhunt/moodle/tree/qforms
Moodle HQ: MD: thanks Andrew
Tim Hunt: https://github.com/timhunt/moodle/commit/73eb834d59faaee6ae1bc05ea440c65276c09361 is the specific commit, I think.
Rex Lorenzo: oh.. can those editing icons be changed to be text based? by any chance?
Rex Lorenzo: as a developer
Moodle HQ: MD: ok, nice. what is the MDL for that?
Rex Lorenzo: the edit, duplicate, move, etc
Dan Poltawski: blocks are next, right Andrew?
Andrew Nicols: MDL-31052, MDL-31263
Mary Cooch: blocks would be good
Andrew Nicols: MDL-31263 - blo drag/drop
Gavin Henrick: a quick edit? like wordpress?
Moodle HQ: MD: We really need to have a meeting separately soon about all this and the course format changes. ... feeling bad all this is being done on top of old course formats!
Gavin Henrick: splendiforous!
Itamar Tzadok: apropo d&d, adding resource/activity could be d&d from a toolbox provided each module can have default settings
Moodle HQ: MD: Should be easy to port though
Ray Lawrence: page format?
Ray Lawrence: still on roadmap for 2.3? MD?
Dan Poltawski: Andrew: actually it would be good to see how the drag drop inteacts with Davo's d&d patches for files
Moodle HQ: MD: yes, ray. One section per page.
Ray Lawrence: drool
Gavin Henrick: really great work.
Rex Lorenzo: can you please post the link to that screencast you mentioned earlier?
Dan Poltawski: its not been integrated
Dan Poltawski: just saying need to look at both
Shane Elliott: looks great, thanks Andrew
Mary Cooch: thanks
Mayank Gupta: Thanks
Helen Foster: thanks Andrew
Gareth Barnard: I got my CF to work with Davo's code with a slight change on his part.
Andrew Nicols: MD: Okay - that'd be great
Julian Ridden: It makes the screen alot less intimidting for the novice user. Love it! Great work
Gavin Henrick: Got an idea, and a suitable student perhaps.
Andrew Nicols: Drag/Drop, toolbox rewrite, and the quick rename screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYhadK3ngXA&context=C30542a0ADOEgsToPDskLD7_-_lQwYEuS4IxyuOycw
Helen Foster: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Projects_for_new_developers
Julian Ridden: how are the mojito stocks in Belgium now?
Helen Foster: sorry I don't have a mike
Moodle HQ: aw come on
Tim Hunt: DAvid?
Helen Foster: Tim!
Ray Lawrence: Anyone!
Dan Poltawski: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1inDtTN5MyCs-o1CGmZoRxSo-n1KsIKExQQaUN4kw9Zo/edit
Gavin Henrick: Was there good beer?
Dan Poltawski: I don't have a mic ;-)
Helen Foster: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1inDtTN5MyCs-o1CGmZoRxSo-n1KsIKExQQaUN4kw9Zo/edit
Helen Foster: meeting notes
Tim Hunt: Sorry, I just got ogge dout
Ray Lawrence: They can't remember perhaps
Mary Cooch: :)
Tim Hunt: I could talk if you like
Andrew Nicols: Working demo of the short forms and module selectors for people to try: http://moodledev.luns.net.uk/a with screencast from Mary Cooch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r01aTIxf_Qo&feature=youtu.be
Tim Hunt: It was good.
Tim Hunt: Nothing really pressing.
Tim Hunt: Except that subpage is a good alternative/complement to paged course formats
Gavin Henrick: Gotta bring the germans..
Ray Lawrence: sUb page is a bit confusing... sorry
Tim Hunt: Oh, and Koen is a good cook.
Mary Cooch: KOen IS a good cook
Paul Nicholls: I'd love to come, please yell loudly when details are available ;-)
Helen Foster: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_February_2012
Paul Nicholls: I tried hacking together a "record audio" repository plugin, but the current API isn't sufficient (as far as I can see) to do it, so it'd be great to see some improvement in that area if you're working on files/repositories for 2.3
Ray Lawrence: all browsers?
Ray Lawrence: drad and drop
Ray Lawrence: % of IE users?
Ray Lawrence: it's a fact
Ray Lawrence: hmm, that's not what i meant
Paul Nicholls: I have a "quick upload" form element I built as part of some "simple" assignment types (which hopefully won't be necessary any more with the upcoming new assignment)
Ray Lawrence: too long to type now
Andrew Nicols: That'd be good
Dan Poltawski: It does work with IE10 Preview 4 or something
Dan Poltawski: since IE added supprot for it
Gavin Henrick: defaults for courses too ?
Ray Lawrence: good
Helen Foster: is license info displayed anywhere or just saved for further reference?
Andrew Nicols: MD: I've got fixes for them
Rex Lorenzo: also, it seems that you cannot edit license info... is that true?
Ray Lawrence: and elsewhere?
Gavin Henrick: is there a plan to have a course report display license info ? so that CC credit can be shown coursewide
Tim Hunt: One thing about licensing is that license is just one form of metadata. (As is author, or uploader, which we already track). Is it worth thinking about other sorts of metadata too?
Ray Lawrence: where - licence
Gavin Henrick: if it is CC BY it should be mentioned publically..
Ray Lawrence: so end user doesn't know licence status
Gavin Henrick: not in the database.
Ray Lawrence: multiple uploads is a requirest since forever
Ray Lawrence: *request
Ray Lawrence: who are those people?
Ray Lawrence: lol
Andrew Nicols: And escape key too - If you open a tinymce mm plugin and then the filepicker, hitting escape breaks things too ;)
Ray Lawrence: needs a list view
Ray Lawrence: the icons take up lot of space when there lots of files
Tim Hunt: Yes. But my proof-of-concept was remarkably little code.
Andrew Nicols: So is the plan to rewrite the filepicker from scratch? -- YUI2? YUI3?
Dan Poltawski: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-29412
Paul Nicholls: we have a hacky "repository" for multi uploads that uses an old Flash-based upload widget - could share if people are interested, but it'd be better to have a nice clean implementation from HQ (ours uses a core hack or two)
Julian Ridden: big request I hear is for that course report o licensing. +1 from here
Gavin Henrick: sorry, what i meant was that if a CC item is used (image) on a page, it should have info about where it came from to comply with the CC licence. or at least perhaps a simple activity/resource report in the course providing a citation (to users) of sources for the files. ?
Gavin Henrick: a GSOC project perhaps..
Ray Lawrence: @JR: Agreed. largeley redundant without licsnce notification to user/learner
Gavin Henrick: so having it isolated is fine
Gavin Henrick: rather than beside the image
Rex Lorenzo: mouse-over tooltip?
Gavin Henrick: just a credits resource type, that produces list of the files and source ?
Ray Lawrence: Yes, good idea
Tim Hunt: We have a repository plugin to record audio using a Java applet. At the moment, we can only do it with core changes to the filepicker.
Tim Hunt: Would be good if we could do that with a pure plugin.
Ray Lawrence: base don rep. capabilities
Gavin Henrick: the internal use cases are really amazing :)
Tim Hunt: Do we need a 'course' private files area, like user private files, but shared by all teachers on teh course?
Ray Lawrence: like course files?
Gavin Henrick: I think that is mentioned on spec i recall something like it
Damyon Wiese: can you force a filearea to not allow links - e.g. student submissions
Damyon Wiese: ?
Gareth Barnard: @Tim: I think that would be useful.
Damyon Wiese: great
Minh-Tam Nguyen: @Tim: sounds like legacy course files?
Ray Lawrence: docs on this will be important to help all. lackof docs were an issue in the 1.9 > 2.x transition
Gavin Henrick: what about course backup? will it include the cached file as well as the reference? or an option to import the file for the backup ?
Ray Lawrence: ok. docs please :)
Gavin Henrick: that means they cant redeploy the backup as a real copy of the course.
Tim Hunt: @Minh-Tam Legacy course fiels can be directly access by the students - breaks the security model. Private files can only be copied/linked ot real palces using the filepicker.
Gavin Henrick: Wont that undermine Mooch ?
Gavin Henrick: ok
Minh-Tam Nguyen: @Tim: yes. it will look like going back to legacy to teachers...
Tim Hunt: I was asking about a private course files area
Tim Hunt: Like private user files
Gavin Henrick: Did the spec not mention server files repository with via block?
Tim Hunt: My private files solves a lot of problems
Tim Hunt: But it does not work for courses where there are mulitple teachers
Gavin Henrick: what was the spec url
Paul Nicholls: Tim - precisely, I've been trying to do it using my Flash-based recorder, but even with dirty, dirty hacks I haven't managed to get it to work without core hacks
Gareth Barnard: @Tim: Would be useful to allow teachers to corrdinate a collection of resources.
Tim Hunt: Could be a contrib repository plugin, of cousre.
Paul Nicholls: (p.s. I may be lagging badly here, to the tune of minutes)
Minh-Tam Nguyen: like for a teacher being able to upload files to server files
Tim Hunt: True, Hidden folder mostly works.
Mary Cooch: yes hidden folder
Tim Hunt: Just takes many mouse clicks to pick files out of there.
Tim Hunt: Compared to My private files.
Tim Hunt: GOod.
Ray Lawrence: hidden folder isn't viable long term option. Remember thos users who clickin the wrong place..
Tim Hunt: It is 3:30am for David
Gavin Henrick: Is that not going to add a lot of traffic to moodle.org ?
Gareth Barnard: Cool - as long as the amount of updates is less than Microsoft ;)
Ray Lawrence: or Adobe
Rex Lorenzo: will it also display the changelog?
Gavin Henrick: will it ask for ftp info like wordpress does?
Minh-Tam Nguyen: like wordpress? neat
Gareth Barnard: Will there be a rollback if they fail?
Ray Lawrence: so only ok ofr devt site?
Tim Hunt: We need a big checkbox: "I ahve done a full backup of my Moodle site, and know how to restore it"
Gareth Barnard: Just thinking of the Oracle SQL commit model.
Tim Hunt: Actually, link to a Moodle quiz, that tests them on it!
Gavin Henrick: and the local moodle partner support number..
Minh-Tam Nguyen: as long as it doesn't result in "moodle auto-update killed my schools data" tweets...
Dan Poltawski: 16. Limitation of Liability. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITINGWILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYSTHE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANYGENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THEUSE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OFDATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRDPARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS),EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OFSUCH DAMAGES.
Gavin Henrick: to manage multiple isntalls like that externally is a good idea
Ray Lawrence: separate dbs may be better if one needs ot split the tenant off later
Dan Poltawski: I don't think it'd be easy for moodle to do that
Gavin Henrick: only concern, is that 30 sub-sites = 30 sets of tables = 30 times the chance of failure..
Dan Poltawski: the permissions in most dbs to create new dbs
Ray Lawrence: how about the hierarchical user management comments in that issue?
Ray Lawrence: yup
Ray Lawrence: that is another issue
Ray Lawrence: don't talk about multi-sites
Tim Hunt: I wonder if hierarchical user management can be done just with different instalnces of auth plugins.
Ray Lawrence: but think end user perception
Dan Poltawski: yep exactly Tim
Ray Lawrence: dog - bone ;)
Gavin Henrick: cool cool.
Tim Hunt: I am planning some minor quiz uability imporvements, I already linked to them.
Tim Hunt: And MDL-3030
Tim Hunt: Althoguh work on that is currenty stalled.
Dan Poltawski: moodle.org/dev/
Dan Poltawski: http://moodle.org/dev/
Tim Hunt: Crash!
Tim Hunt: DoS attack
Gavin Henrick: very cool :)
Adam Olley: tag cloud
Helen Foster: yes
Andrew Nicols: Love that moodlerobot is so large
Ray Lawrence: code contrib
Tim Hunt: Go! moodlerobot
Gavin Henrick: AMOS bot!!
Andrew Nicols: awww
Tim Hunt: Not fair!
Helen Foster: how is institution filled in?
Andrew Nicols: Does it handle changes in e-mail address in git commits?
Helen Foster: thanks dan
Andrew Nicols: Looks good
Tim Hunt: Helen is doing well.
Ray Lawrence: ok
Gavin Henrick: There has been a lot of talk of institutions not going to 2 in summer..
Helen Foster: zzzzz
Ray Lawrence: bye
Gareth Barnard: Thank you everybody :)
Gavin Henrick: and wanting more 1.9 support extended
Matt Oquist: looking forward to upgrading to 2.x soon... finally... :)
Gavin Henrick: so partners doing it?
Tim Hunt: I am ingtrigued by the Versions used graphs on http://moodle.org/stats/
Dan Marsden: Nate isn't able to...
Tim Hunt: I think people are not registerign their 2.x sites.
Tim Hunt: Perhaps because of confusing with Mooch registration.
Helen Foster: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=196713#p858229
Gavin Henrick: Tim - good point.
Dan Marsden: we'll do it for at least until 20dec 2012
Tim Hunt: Anwyay, I owuld love to know what is happening with those stats.
Dan Marsden: will discuss how we can do it for longer.
Gavin Henrick: yeah Tim, cant believe the stats
Andrew Nicols: which bit?
Gavin Henrick: in my experience less than 25% of people registered the sites anyhow
Helen Foster: I think the same as tim
Tim Hunt: I think that HQ integrators should no integrate onto the 1.9 branch
Tim Hunt: If someone is volunteering to maintain 1.9, they need to do that.
Gavin Henrick: would it be possible to break Mooch and Site registration for security announcements/plugins
Tim Hunt: Good point.
Tim Hunt: Separate branch
Gavin Henrick: so that they can think of them differently ?
Sam Hemelryk: I 100% agree with Tim
Dan Marsden: yeah - github would be good
Paul Nicholls: Moodle 1.9 Community Edition?
Dan Marsden: as long as HQ changes links to point to it instead
Tim Hunt: YEs
Tim Hunt: No, I don't konw if it is true.
Tim Hunt: WOuld be nice to find out, but I don't konw how you can.
Tim Hunt: Plugins update things rpobably does.
Gavin Henrick: maybe ask the moodle partners to all encourage mooch registration from their clients?
Paul Nicholls: I think I missed a reasonably large chunk of the meeting when I reconnected, I'd been lagging by ~10 mins
Dan Poltawski: or ask the moodle partners..
Dan Marsden: heh - I register when I upgrade sites... don't ask the client most of the time...
Dan Marsden: (set as private registration)
Helen Foster: well done dan!
Tim Hunt: It is on the admin notifications page!
Andrew Nicols: Off Topic: Are we stayig with openmeeting or considering other systems?
Tim Hunt: Good night everyone.
Matt Oquist: thx all
Andrew Nicols: bigbluebutton has moodle integration
Tim Hunt: Pity recording does not work.
Gavin Henrick: the latest version is nice now...
Gavin Henrick: have u asked BBB ? for one?
Andrew Nicols: Except for the lack of recording, and issues with width
Paul Nicholls: I may be able to get an Adobe Connect meeting room set up for these meetings, if that'd be desirable
Andrew Nicols: Just a thought ;)
Tim Hunt: Oh, any news of iMoot?
Andrew Nicols: Who is "Me"?
Paul Nicholls: I think we can go to 50, not sure - I'd have to talk to the guys who run it
Shane Elliott: Tim: will be posting later this week about it
Andrew Nicols: (the me to contact)
Tim Hunt: Cool!
Tim Hunt: Thanks Shane
Paul Nicholls: who should I talk to if I can get one set up?
Paul Nicholls: (I can't find out right now)
Gavin Henrick: so is everyone coming to dublin in april ?;-)
Moodle HQ: support@moodle.com or me or Michael de Raadt
Tim Hunt: Bye
Matt Oquist: ciao
Helen Foster: dublin is ireland and uk moot
Andrew Nicols: Any Lancaster is Mahara Moot
Paul Nicholls: Also, how long until a transcript of this meeting will be up? (guesstimate)
Moodle HQ:
Andrew Nicols: Thanks all
Jennifer Edmondson: Bye
Sam Hemelryk: Bye
Mary Cooch: thanks
Gavin Henrick: thanks all, night.
Moodle HQ: Bold hjgfgj
Itamar Tzadok: thanks
Damyon Wiese: thanks all
Kanika Goyal: Thanks all. Was really nice. Heading to school right away.
Paul Nicholls: Thanks - was good to be able to join one of these
Shane Elliott: ciao all