Developer meeting October 2013
From MoodleDocs
Developer meetings > October 2013 meeting notes
| Time | 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 22 October 2013 |
| Meeting room | Moodle YouTube channel |
| Chat | Regular Dev chat |
| #moodledev |
In this meeting we will focus on the upcoming Moodle release.
Meeting video
<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMAjDAa4S80</mediaplayer>
Meeting Notes
Moodle 2.6 progress
- Release notes are being prepared. Devs should add information related to changes there.
- Two new features still in progress. Work on these will continue after 2.6 release.
- Atto editor was considered but won't be in Core. Will consider editors in next cycle.
QA Testing
- Already underway (QA Dashboard)
- A reminder about using labels
- When adding features that need a QA test, add the qa_test_required label.
- For automated testing devs can add the acceptance_test_required label.
- New features should also have a docs_required label added (and now is the time to add those docs).
- There is a guide to using Official labels
- There is also a guide to writing Automated tests
Question behaviours
- Question behaviours can now add summary information to the quiz review page.
- Change to API is not backwards compatible, but not a big change for question behaviour devs. (No changes required to question types.)
Quick Data Generation
- There are a number of ways to add data into Moodle in an automated fashion. (Notes)
- tool_uploadcourse allows admins to upload courses from CSV file
- course content can be based on a backup
- tool_uploadusers allows admins to upload users from CSV file (not new)
- enrol_flatfile allows users to be enrolled using a CSV file (not new)
- testing_data_generator provides methods that can be used in automated testing and can be used to fill example course with dummy data
- generator does not guarantee compatibility with capabilities, settings, events or actions
- Admin tool maketestcourse.php can be used to generate courses of varying sizes
- Other sources of data are web services and Behat features.
Performance testing
- Perforamce testing requires big data sets
- We are using the large course generator
- Added JMeter test generator, which allows...
- Testing performance of a change
- Testing of weekly/larger release
- Comparing hardware
- Tuning
- Configured by setting the "before" and "after" branches in a script and basing versions on backups (DB and data).
Plugins
- Changes to Plugins Directory
- New RSS feeds (new plugins as well as updates)
- Links to translations in plugins entries
- Plugins Directory ready for 2.6 versions
- Awards from editors, ratings and reviews needed
Plugin management
- Updates and cleanup to make plugins faster
- Various plugins can now have sub-plugins
- Names must be unique across all plugins, so think seriously about this.
Session changes
- Newly redesigned session driver now works with PHP, file and memcache
- Performance is dependant on underlying PHP driver
- Not a significant performance improvement, but more consistency and cooperation between session drivers.
- Should benefit clustered servers, where other improvements have been made.
HTML Guidelines
- Need for consistency, clearer DOM and more accessibility
- Activity module authors should attempt to follow guidelines in pages to achieve semantic consistency
- Please be involved in a discussion about this.
Policy decisions
- We now have a tracker component to help decide development related policy changes.
- Example: New features don't need to have a JS fallback, but do need to comply with accessibility guidelines. (MDL-41535)
Backup and restore
- In 2.6 we now support gzip which allows bigger (>4gb) backups.
- A progress bar shows activity while course is being restored.
Attendees
Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Davidson, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Damyon Wiese, Dan Poltawski, Dan Bennett, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy, Eric Merrill, Gareth J Barnard, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jenny Gray, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Justin Fillip, Juan Leyva, Kristy, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Mary Cooch, Michael de Raadt, Michael Blake, Mike Churcward, Russel Smith, Peter Bulmer, Petr Škoda, Prateek Sachan, Ray Lawrence, Rex Lorenzo, Ruslan Kablan, Rosie Wijaya, Sam Marshall, Shane Elliot, Tim Hunt, Yair Spielmann, Yuliya Bozhko.
Meeting chat log
| Adrian Greeve | Good evening everyone. | 8:54:02 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Hi. | 8:54:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Just starting the room | 8:56:49 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Greetings all | 8:57:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Streaming video will be | 8:59:54 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Hello all | 9:00:24 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Hi Gareth | 9:00:32 PM |
| Ankit Agarwal | Hello | 9:01:38 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Hi All | 9:02:35 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I'm inviting all those down on the agenda to speak | 9:02:35 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Is the video link on the Moodledocs pagee yet? | 9:02:36 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Sam just failed ot get in. | 9:02:43 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | its up there^ | 9:02:48 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 9:03:01 PM | |
| Mike Churchward | You can also find it from here - http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlemeetings/videos | 9:03:07 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I'm just about to send a new beta release to github, please rebase | 9:05:30 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | s/github/git mirrors | 9:05:40 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Starting the broadcast now | 9:05:46 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | seeing it yet? | 9:06:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | no | 9:06:21 PM |
| danbennett | Nope | 9:06:24 PM |
| Davo Smith | yes | 9:06:27 PM |
| Mary Cooch | no | 9:06:27 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Yes | 9:06:29 PM |
| Mary Cooch | always takes time | 9:06:30 PM |
| Jenny Gray | yes | 9:06:30 PM |
| Eric Merrill | just came up for me | 9:06:37 PM |
| Mary Cooch | yes | 9:06:40 PM |
| danbennett | yes *waves* | 9:06:43 PM |
| Justin Filip | Just started here | 9:06:46 PM |
| Jason Fowler | I can't get in to the hang out | 9:06:47 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yes | 9:06:52 PM |
| Jason Fowler | keep getting a fatal error when trying to install the plugin | 9:07:05 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | yes | 9:07:08 PM |
| Andrew Davis | apparently no more can get into the hangout. just watch on youtube | 9:07:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Jason you should be added | 9:07:23 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Andrew, I am supposed to be presenting | 9:07:24 PM |
| David Monllaó | somebody can hear me? | 9:07:31 PM |
| Andrew Davis | well that could be an issue then | 9:07:34 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | yes David M but soft | 9:07:41 PM |
| Jason Fowler | yeah, it will be | 9:07:55 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | whos got their audio on, can hear an echo | 9:08:03 PM |
| Andrew Davis | there is echo. can those not speaking please mute your microphone | 9:08:16 PM |
| Justin Filip | David is really quiet | 9:08:41 PM |
| David Mudrák | as usually | 9:08:47 PM |
| Justin Filip | Hi, Tim! =) | 9:09:35 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_October_2013#Agenda | 9:10:11 PM |
| David Monllaó | jfilip: lol, sorry I'm not specially physically comfortable here | 9:12:54 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Atto as well .. | 9:13:34 PM |
| Justin Filip | David, no worries. I can crank my volume when you're talking if need be. ;) | 9:14:10 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Atto will be going up onto Plugins directory. | 9:14:10 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Yep, but it won't be in core so it won't be getting the same priority. | 9:15:05 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | comment. | 9:17:06 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | think Tim wants to talk | 9:17:18 PM |
| Davo Smith | hi helen | 9:17:23 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Yes | 9:17:38 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | yep | 9:18:09 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | sorry it seems the lag is even bigger than usual, approx 1 min for some | 9:18:40 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | qa_test_required | 9:19:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels | 9:19:18 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Have user docs been split yet? | 9:20:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yes, eric | 9:20:25 PM |
| Mary Cooch | yes Eric | 9:20:27 PM |
| Eric Merrill | thanks | 9:20:30 PM |
| David Mudrák | yes! for beer | 9:20:56 PM |
| Andrew Davis | Are the QA tests being trimmed down as they are replaced by behat? | 9:21:06 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Yes adnrew | 9:21:14 PM |
| Andrew Davis | huzzah | 9:21:22 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Yes (not in this iteration though) | 9:21:25 PM |
| Davo Smith | very quiet? | 9:21:52 PM |
| Tim Hunt | Please can I go next, so I can then escape to my othre meeting. Sorry. | 9:21:55 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | David is mentioning acceptance_test_required | 9:22:00 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Yes, very quiet | 9:22:00 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | ^ also in the tracker labels docs https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels | 9:22:09 PM |
| David Monllaó | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Contributing_automated_tests | 9:22:33 PM |
| Mike Churchward | Its very hard to hear | 9:23:02 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | I missed Dan's iMoot presentation on Behat in Moodle - waiting for the replay on YouTube - beyond https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Behat_integration what is the best way to learn how to create automated tests please? | 9:25:08 PM |
| Justin Filip | Look at examples of other tests in Moodle already? | 9:25:35 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Gareth J Barnard: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing | 9:25:50 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Anyone here working opn questions? | 9:26:09 PM |
| Justin Filip | Or, what Dan said. =) | 9:26:27 PM |
| Marina Glancy | https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000 | 9:26:37 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols appears a touch late | 9:26:51 PM |
| Davo Smith | Is it just question behaviours or types as well? | 9:26:57 PM |
| sam marshall | Not working on questions. | 9:27:11 PM |
| sam marshall | davo - I think it's just behaviours | 9:27:15 PM |
| Davo Smith | ok - that's a relief | 9:27:24 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @jfilip But they are the output. Thanks Dan - any good screen casts you would recommend too? | 9:27:26 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Marina has dyed her hair (again)? | 9:27:58 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Off topic a bit there Andrew :P | 9:28:18 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | heh | 9:28:23 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Sorry, I got stuck in traffic and all sorts | 9:28:43 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Gareth: I don't think so (I don't think it'd help, to be honest). I showed it for about 2 mins at that imoot talk | 9:28:57 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @Dan - thanks - I'll read through the links posted. | 9:29:33 PM |
| Jason Fowler | heh, I got stuck with Windows not allowing me to uninstall the Google Talk plugin in order to install the Google Hangouts plugin ... | 9:29:38 PM |
| Justin Filip | Gareth, I was referring to the existing code in Moodle that runs the tests within Moodle. | 9:30:18 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (its 'cool' to see the browser doing its thing magically, but it doesn't help so much with getting it setup ) | 9:30:20 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | bloody iGadgets. No way yo connect to the stream in a reliable way. I've tried hangouts, google+, youtube and ios safari. Uninstalling all the google ones right now. | 9:30:27 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Eloy it's just a youtube video, should work nearly on anything | 9:30:57 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | tell it to my ipad, please. | 9:31:08 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | now I'm in the laptop. | 9:31:21 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | ? | 9:31:25 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @jfilip - no worries - just looking to understand how to install and create tests. | 9:31:31 PM |
| Jason Fowler | heh, the laptop should play nicely | 9:31:32 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | yes, i'm there, listening to marina | 9:31:33 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | though it does not show the "live" red light. | 9:32:10 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Shame Tim won't be here to respond to what I have to say, he was the one that requested the discussion | 9:32:13 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | i'm looking forward to better testing using really huge datasets | 9:32:38 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Note it's good for UI testing as well as performance things | 9:33:10 PM |
| sam marshall | 'make large course' tool worth mentioning at this point? | 9:33:12 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yep | 9:33:24 PM |
| Justin Filip | Once you get large data then you move onto the next problem: testing with multiple people hitting the same Moodle site at the same time with that large dataset in your DB. | 9:33:54 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | suspect she might be getting to it, Sam | 9:34:17 PM |
| sam marshall | cool | 9:34:23 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | heh, has anyone seen the comments on the youtube video | 9:34:41 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | The Urban Ninja I love using moodle for school The Urban Ninja How long did it take to create moodle? |
9:34:46 PM |
| sam marshall | btw, the generator stuff is pretty nice to use | 9:34:52 PM |
| sam marshall | (imo) | 9:34:57 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | A tad difficult to see the example. | 9:35:00 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | @jfilip: https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-performance-comparison | 9:35:28 PM |
| sam marshall | adrian - make fullscreen and iut will switch to hd mode | 9:35:50 PM |
| sam marshall | you can read code there | 9:35:59 PM |
| David Mudrák | Dan P, please don't confuse the speaker with mentioning ninjas | 9:36:00 PM |
| sam marshall | er if on youtube that is | 9:36:15 PM |
| Justin Filip | Rex, interesting, thanks. | 9:36:17 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Not on my connection it won't. I already have it full screen. | 9:36:31 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yeah, maybe we need a differnet back channel which isn't for the speaker to read | 9:36:31 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | I'll have to rewatch it. | 9:36:44 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | So we can talk about the speaker behind their back? | 9:36:51 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Adrian - the link to the presentation is up there^ | 9:36:59 PM |
| sam marshall | adrian - ah sorry, did on mine (took 10 seconds to update) | 9:36:59 PM |
| David Monllaó | I will be talking about that tool | 9:37:16 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000 | 9:37:30 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Why would events not trigger during data generation? | 9:38:13 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | they don't all use the api functions | 9:38:25 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Ah... | 9:38:49 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | yay, finally got it in the ipad via google+ | 9:38:54 PM |
| David Monllaó | IIRC Marina is working on using the API | 9:39:21 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (I mean you've got to remember they started from making the bare basics for unit testing) | 9:39:50 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Or trigger the necessary events that would be called if you used the API? | 9:39:59 PM |
| Justin Filip | It's probably a good idea to have the option of using the Moodle API. 1) I want it fast, I don't care about events. 2) I want a "true" simulation, use the API and trigger events, I don't care how long it takes. | 9:40:14 PM |
| David Mudrák | thanks marina | 9:41:01 PM |
| Jason Fowler | jason likes the Portal turret on the shelf ... "Are you still there?" | 9:41:22 PM |
| David Monllaó | ok for everybody? | 9:42:02 PM |
| Davo Smith | better | 9:42:29 PM |
| Adrian Greeve | Yrs, much better. | 9:42:55 PM |
| Jason Fowler | doing this outside on the patio to avoid waking up my daughter was a crazy idea | 9:44:22 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | cold? | 9:44:31 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I'm back in the office | 9:44:57 PM |
| Jason Fowler | a little | 9:45:05 PM |
| Jason Fowler | made worse by the fact the garden sprinklers have been on | 9:45:27 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | lots of bugs? | 9:45:48 PM |
| Jason Fowler | screen is covered in midgies | 9:46:17 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (mute your mike if not speaking) | 9:46:18 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | and lol | 9:46:45 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (waiting to hear this..) | 9:47:03 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | David's script makes this all reasonably simple once it's set up | 9:47:58 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | you'll be wanting to performance test after every line of code :P | 9:48:15 PM |
| Justin Filip | This is great. It all works? | 9:48:37 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | tsh! | 9:48:51 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yep | 9:48:52 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | it'd be great having more people looking at it, not many people have tried it out yet (myself included) | 9:49:21 PM |
| Eric Merrill | I've used it a bit. Although it was a bit confusing to setup the first time. Needs a bit of docs work. | 9:49:29 PM |
| Justin Filip | I will definitely give it a try. | 9:49:36 PM |
| Mary Cooch | sounds in the background? | 9:50:24 PM |
| Justin Filip | Eric, It can't be any more awkward to setup than the Behat tests, can it? | 9:50:25 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | (David's housemates.) | 9:50:36 PM |
| Mary Cooch | ah ok | 9:50:41 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | ah | 9:50:43 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Martin Dougiamas waits for him to shout STFU | 9:50:55 PM |
| Eric Merrill | jfilip: I've actually found that behat has become pretty easy (used to be much harder) | 9:50:57 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Yeah, the results page is very interesting. We are using it to test different muc cache settings and server side configs. Anyone have igbinary turned on for their prod setups? | 9:51:01 PM |
| sam marshall | I'm really glad Moodle HQ are doing this stuff. One issue, large systems like us have setups where the web server is on different physical hardware (requiring network round trips) from database, filesystem, and memcache if included. There were things which made Moodle 2.4 slower on that type of system, it has different perf characteristics. Any plans to do regular tests on a system with web server on different physical hardware from the filesystem (NFS) etc?. | 9:51:10 PM |
| sam marshall | obv we could do that with this code I assume... | 9:51:30 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Definitely Sam. We'll be testing on a cluster similar to the one we built for moodle.org | 9:51:42 PM |
| sam marshall | awesome, thanks | 9:51:57 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | rexlorenzo@gmail.com: what effect did igbinary have for you? | 9:52:46 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | uses glusterFS and galera for db | 9:52:47 PM |
| Eric Merrill | I did notice when running my tests that my results were… jumpy. Quite a bit of fluctuation from run to run. I need to fiddle more to see if it was something I was doing or not, but I would probably not run just one test and assume it's reprsentative | 9:53:08 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | igbinary cuts session site in half. But not using it in prod yet, still testing | 9:53:20 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | *size | 9:53:24 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | And perf though? | 9:53:32 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Eric: david has been trying different variations and mentioned the number earlier where getting consistent results | 9:53:53 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | for sure, eric, wait to you see the graphs david has made at the end | 9:53:55 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Thanks - I'm having a hard time understanding him :/ | 9:54:28 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | David, do you have those graphs? | 9:55:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | don't bother with solaris | 9:55:55 PM |
| Jason Fowler | if you work with Solaris, Moodle performance is likely to be the least of your issues :P | 9:55:57 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | heh | 9:56:41 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I was speaking to someone at a large British University running Solaris for Eevverrything | 9:56:42 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | with oracle surely, lol | 9:56:56 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I spent most of the 90's on Solaris workstations | 9:56:58 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Andrew used to be the resident solaris expert in our last job | 9:57:18 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | he will be happy to work on it again | 9:57:25 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | muahhahahah.. I made them all feel like they were running Debian | 9:57:32 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | sure, once you abandone it, never return, lol. | 9:57:42 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I'm actually on the OpenCSW packaging team still ;\ | 9:57:43 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I really should quite | 9:57:47 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | quit* | 9:57:51 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | (the opencsw team) | 9:57:55 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Used Solaris in the 90's too when compiling C++ took 40 mins on a relatively medium project. | 9:58:23 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | I think this tool could really develop into a nice analysis tool | 9:58:24 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | it compares any number of runs with each other | 9:58:38 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Yeah. I really liked it. I think the thing I would like is if you can average a number of runs, and compare that against another average of runs | 9:59:27 PM |
| Eric Merrill | If that makes sense | 9:59:35 PM |
| Eric Merrill | But overall I liked it a lot | 9:59:56 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | I think I've an OUTDATED version available @ http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/ | 10:00:24 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (David are you showing us a screen that is off screen?) | 10:00:29 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | (remark: OUTDATED, 2-3 wekks old) | 10:00:36 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Very Cool :D | 10:01:05 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (show people pretty graphs - the solution to everything in life) | 10:01:24 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | well it works when people are starting to talk about solaris | 10:01:44 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @DanP will that work with the camelCase discussion? ;) | 10:02:08 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols suspects that the camelCase discussion will soon cease | 10:02:36 PM |
| sam marshall | btw, this looks pretty awesome | 10:02:39 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | David doesn't understand my english either | 10:03:04 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Indeed. Big thumbs up! | 10:03:11 PM |
| Justin Filip | Very cool! | 10:03:15 PM |
| David Monllaó | Eric, about the fluctuations try with "S" size, 30 users and 5 loops (by default) results should be stable | 10:04:04 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | still the forum post redirect with all zeros, eh | 10:04:21 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Huh Eloy? | 10:04:33 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah there is a bug there with redirects still | 10:04:42 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | BTW david - you should post on the hardware and perfmance forum | 10:04:43 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (don't think you've posted about it yet?) | 10:04:49 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMonllao: Thanks. I'll play with it a bit more | 10:05:02 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | nah we have an ongoing issue to capture info from redirects (internal problem) | 10:05:06 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | finally new calendar types! | 10:05:25 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMonllao: It's mostly server load and time taken that fluctuate (but are also the numbers I care most about :D ) | 10:05:31 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | yeah, environment must be STABLE for them to have any sense. | 10:05:49 PM |
| Jason Fowler | DavidMonllao: can you please mute your mic? | 10:06:02 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | i got it perfectly. best everybody! | 10:06:21 PM |
| Eric Merrill | For those who use load balancers, I have two new cache stores waiting for approval that greatly speed sites | 10:06:35 PM |
| Eric Merrill | memcache(d)cluster | 10:06:40 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | w00t! | 10:06:48 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | you did it! | 10:06:54 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Calendar types - Gregorian comes with core | 10:06:55 PM |
| Mark Nelson | (obviously) | 10:07:11 PM |
| David Monllaó | if you are running the tests in a dev. client computer is normal | 10:07:11 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | that broken image is worrying :P | 10:08:20 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | there is a MDLSITE | 10:08:30 PM |
| David Mudrák | blame the cluster | 10:08:35 PM |
| David Monllaó | an isolated server will return stable resutls, at least it should, we are backing up database and dataroot at the beginning and restoring it after the first test plan run | 10:08:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | ffs | 10:08:45 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yep | 10:09:38 PM |
| David Mudrák | no | 10:09:40 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | yes apu | 10:09:59 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Aparup: I heard there were plans for auto-release on git branch update. Is that still in the work (or there and I didn't know it)? | 10:10:00 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | wow that's like a 2 min lag | 10:10:09 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | If a user uses the automated installer for a plugin can they choose then to subscribe to comments? As might be helpful. | 10:10:30 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (If Google doesn't add a better built-in chat to Hangouts on Air I think I would like to try a better tool for this meeting next time … ) | 10:12:14 PM |
| David Mudrák | Eric Merrill, we are a bit worried about it | 10:12:37 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMudrak: Or even a 'click here to fetch your new version from github', even if it wasnt completely automated | 10:13:14 PM |
| sam marshall | I never update my plugins, too lazy/busy ;( Have automation to update github for all of them when i run a script, but not the moodle bit | 10:13:22 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Really like the Github code searching | 10:13:27 PM |
| David Mudrák | Eric, that is already supported | 10:13:30 PM |
| David Mudrák | we have Github repository | 10:13:36 PM |
| David Mudrák | so you can pick the ZIP directly via it | 10:13:49 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMudrak: Oh - Ill have to try that out | 10:13:55 PM |
| David Mudrák | Yes, it's really cool | 10:14:05 PM |
| David Mudrák | (credit goes to Dan P) | 10:14:12 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMudrak: Thanks. It's hard keeping up with everything! | 10:14:24 PM |
| David Mudrák | nah, tell me about that | 10:14:37 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | Where is the code search on the plugin page? Is that only for selected users? | 10:14:40 PM |
| Mark Nelson | It would definitely be nice to have it automated, especially when you are doing a minor change which you then have to apply to multiple branches | 10:14:47 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I think pushing a tag would make sense | 10:15:01 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah I agree. | 10:15:06 PM |
| Eric Merrill | yeah | 10:15:08 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I think that a tag is enough of a thing to say 'ive thought about it' | 10:15:35 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Git is so fast … shouldn't be hard to poll every hour or so | 10:15:39 PM |
| David Mudrák | It depends on people being pretty disciplined in using Git | 10:15:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | we could use special Moodle plugins tags for this | 10:16:04 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | DavidMudrak: you could even call it moodle.org-plugins-v1.1 or something crazy | 10:16:13 PM |
| sam marshall | yes tag would be awesome | 10:16:13 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | plugin_release_trigger_5 or something | 10:16:24 PM |
| Jason Fowler | release_version_20131022 ? | 10:16:35 PM |
| Jason Fowler | and only rebuild the zip on incremented version numbers? | 10:16:54 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | release_26_20131022? | 10:17:14 PM |
| Jason Fowler | that makes more sense Andrew | 10:17:25 PM |
| Justin Filip | Most of the 3rd party plugins that we track at RL don't use tags at all in their Git repositories for their plugins. | 10:17:48 PM |
| David Mudrák | David Mudrak is still sceptic about it. I just saw too much of creativity of our good contributors | 10:17:55 PM |
| sam marshall | don't like numbers personally, dates are good since alkready in version.php etc. | 10:18:00 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I suggest a tag because people don't routinely tag | 10:18:13 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | but, it fits perfectly with the use case, and is in the git tool | 10:18:27 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Yeah, it makes it explicit that you want to auto-release a version | 10:18:39 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | and distinct from just commiting | 10:18:47 PM |
| Justin Filip | I think tags are a good idea for something like that, or something within a comment that is parsed. | 10:18:55 PM |
| Eric Merrill | What's the current backlog on plugins awaiting approval? | 10:19:14 PM |
| Justin Filip | like "CONTRIB-XXX [commit_msg] #release_20131022" | 10:19:20 PM |
| Justin Filip | But at that point, you might as well be using a tag anyway. =) | 10:19:42 PM |
| David Mudrák | Eric Merrill, Waiting for approval plugins (19) | 10:20:05 PM |
| Eric Merrill | DavidMudrak: Thanks | 10:21:08 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | I use tags for all my releases, perhaps if it's so important then a 'tag' link should be manditory? | 10:21:45 PM |
| David Mudrák | Let's encourage people to tag releases, let's make the "new release by the tag" easier but please, let us not force anything. There are people using their ways, SCMs, worflows etc | 10:22:46 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | 1 | 10:23:00 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | (agree) | 10:23:07 PM |
| Mike Churchward | Yep… Encourage strongly... | 10:23:15 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (of course its already mandatory to upload from the webpage :P) | 10:23:15 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | i use .doc files to keep my history here. | 10:23:23 PM |
| Justin Filip | Yeah, if someone isn't using tags in their repository but is still putting up a "release" on plugins DB, that still worsk for me. | 10:23:25 PM |
| Eric Merrill | I would think you would need to set it up in your plugin settings (repo, branchs, enable tags, etc), completely optional | 10:23:26 PM |
| sam marshall | not forcing = fine, but can we have automated never-look-at-moodle-website updates at least as an option | 10:23:46 PM |
| David Mudrák | sam marshall, we can expose it via web services and let the community write tools for it | 10:24:12 PM |
| sam marshall | btw I think we can delete my items from agenda, since i'm not in hangout and they're notr that important and long meeting is long | 10:24:54 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | pff, we need the community to test moodle via uploading on the site :P | 10:24:54 PM |
| Justin Filip | The problem would be if someone just dumps something in the tip of a branch in Git that is in-progress code and someone updates their site with that code which isn't even finished and potentially breaks that plugin or core Moodle functionality due to inadvertently pulling in unstable code. | 10:24:57 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | What about a star rating? | 10:25:08 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | pftt stars | 10:25:18 PM |
| Helen Foster | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Plugin_reviews | 10:25:24 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Mind you I only tag with a version number, I've never considered adding a requires Moodle version date. Would help with the questions and the 'requires' using the '$plugin->requires' does not have a one to one mapping with '$release' in core 'version.php'. | 10:25:25 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Yes, its important to remember how pushing a branch now could have an impact | 10:25:29 PM |
| sam marshall | by automated I meant, eg via tag. web service if it doesn't suck | 10:25:34 PM |
| sam marshall | not any old push | 10:25:50 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (immediately deployed to all moodle sites, etc) | 10:25:53 PM |
| danbennett | If partners have done a review of a plugin, maybe share to that from the plugins page itself? Just a thought | 10:26:01 PM |
| Justin Filip | Gareth, for our plugins we bake the Moodle version into the plugin version number, e.g. 2.4.x.y, 2.5.x.y, 2.6.x.y so the version number tells you which version of Moodle that release runs on. | 10:26:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Does anyone follow stuff on their own plugins via rss feeds? | 10:26:35 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yes. | 10:26:40 PM |
| David Mudrák | no. | 10:26:54 PM |
| Eric Merrill | I haven't, but ive been adding them yo my reader now | 10:27:00 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (Btw, you guys should see how painful it is to upload an update to Apple with billions of dollars to make their developer portal) | 10:27:03 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @jfilip - I do that already - but still get issues with very minor releases where the API changes. | 10:27:12 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah | 10:27:16 PM |
| sam marshall | we really encourage people to use github issues if they want to report anything, although i do sometimes reply to comments | 10:27:34 PM |
| sam marshall | dan - if moodle can't have more open practices than Apple... | 10:27:54 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | Is there any intention to use data captured during update checking and reporting that back to potential downloaders? | 10:27:57 PM |
| Justin Filip | Is using the CONTRIB project on the Moodle Tracker still recommended? | 10:28:02 PM |
| Justin Filip | (For contrib addons . . . ) | 10:28:20 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Sam: i'm not talking about open, i'm talking about tool usability | 10:28:26 PM |
| David Mudrák | jfilip, it really depends imho | 10:28:28 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @Sam They can use GitHub issues and Tracker, and I use the latter more. | 10:28:30 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Yeh, depends on what the developer prefers | 10:28:41 PM |
| sam marshall | dan - integrating with git to automatically update, rather than going via a complex form process, would be more open | 10:28:43 PM |
| David Mudrák | David Mudrak personally switched to Github tracker for his addons | 10:28:44 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Subplugins - AKA plugin-plugins :P | 10:28:52 PM |
| danbennett | Didn't know hotpot was so widely downloaded o-O | 10:29:20 PM |
| Jason Fowler | bloody hell, it's almost summer, why is it so cold!!! | 10:29:31 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | global warming | 10:29:41 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | danbennett: Hotpot is really widely used. | 10:29:50 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | well thats why i want to work in more breakdowns into the statistics page | 10:29:57 PM |
| Jason Fowler | o.O global cooling? | 10:30:00 PM |
| Mark Nelson | I hear the progress report plugin is pretty awesome | 10:30:06 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Global weather chaos | 10:30:22 PM |
| Jason Fowler | the certificate plugin is pretty decent too | 10:30:23 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Lol, no it's not | 10:30:30 PM |
| danbennett | Michael d: Just didnt realise how much compared to certificate. heh | 10:30:33 PM |
| Jason Fowler | just avoid the pushover one for 2.6 - it's not ready yet | 10:30:40 PM |
| Justin Filip | Yay, for plugins love! =) | 10:30:46 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 10:30:55 PM | |
| Martin Dougiamas | Still needs a lot more IMO | 10:31:06 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | (sorry i was referring to db, not the new subplugins fixes) | 10:31:50 PM |
| David Mudrák | Petr Å koda, what plugin types support subplugins now? | 10:32:18 PM |
| Petr Škoda | https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Subplugins | 10:32:24 PM |
| David Mudrák | thanks | 10:32:47 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | When will we have recursive sub-plugins? | 10:33:24 PM |
| Jason Fowler | lol | 10:33:36 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | yay perf increase | 10:33:54 PM |
| David Mudrák | Yeah, I was facing the limited length of tables in workshopallocation_* plugins, too | 10:34:27 PM |
| David Mudrák | *table names | 10:34:34 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | contenteditable_* is a bad sub plugin name - atto_* is much better | 10:34:38 PM |
| David Mudrák | Aparup, that reminds me - we should have a way to "book" the plugin name you are working on somehow | 10:35:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | related.. MDL-41310 | 10:35:08 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41310 - Should we drop our support for Oracle databases?.V: 1, W: 15, Type: Bug, Assignee: Michael de Raadt, Priority: Minor, Status: Open | 10:35:09 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | fgtr | 10:35:09 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | A little discussion on the theme's forum about having 'sub-theme-plugins' so a way that you could create a display component like a 'slider' and then that be included in your theme without the developer adding it. Like 'theme components'. | 10:35:22 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | there was a problem the plugins DB too, but it was resolved by taking a part of the name - iirc 28 chars? | 10:35:35 PM |
| David Mudrák | Everybody wants subplugins. | 10:35:38 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | is 2.6 beta out there already ? | 10:35:46 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | in the plugins db | 10:35:52 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | y | 10:35:59 PM |
| David Mudrák | David Mudrak will rename to just "shop" | 10:36:01 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | well you can always book by first uploading - it can remain unapproved and you can reschedule for approval when ready again | 10:36:09 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | yes Eloy | 10:36:18 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | doh | 10:36:22 PM |
| David Mudrák | Aparup, ah | 10:36:23 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | oh no domain name squatting all over again | 10:36:28 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | Eloy Lafuente updates his plugins | 10:36:30 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | shouldn't have mentioned oracle | 10:36:31 PM |
| David Mudrák | Aparup, does it mean that unapproved plugins block the name forever? | 10:36:46 PM |
| David Mudrák | Petr Å koda, when will we support subplugins for all types? | 10:37:07 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | this ofcourse still goes through human eyes - squatters - and unaproved plugins , will be cleaned/ping every now and then | 10:37:28 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | Thanks Petr for working on MDL-42110 - is it critical enough to be back ported despite a possible issue. I'm getting a lot of people experiencing this issue. | 10:38:28 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42110 - Installing add-ons causes 500 internal server error..V: 0, W: 5, Type: Bug, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Critical, Status: Waiting for integration review | 10:38:29 PM |
| Jason Fowler | jason should have put on warmer socks | 10:40:10 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | The new sessions should really help clusters in particular | 10:41:24 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 10:41:29 PM | |
| Eric Merrill | Yeah, I'm excited to deploy 2.6 in a few months | 10:42:04 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | David found a good improvement from it I think | 10:42:13 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | DavidMonllao: ? | 10:42:27 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | graphs to come on release notes | 10:43:03 PM |
| sam marshall | db tables prob? | 10:43:17 PM |
| Rex Lorenzo | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40979 | 10:43:22 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | Everytime Petr looks to the camera my Google+ stops streaming. | 10:43:25 PM |
| sam marshall | (also in the 'stuff that can be cached locally' list, I meant) | 10:43:27 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | (or perhaps it's everytime he says "oracle") | 10:43:36 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | lol | 10:43:37 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Google runs on Oracle obvously | 10:43:47 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Eloy: you might want to read his comment in the relesae notes | 10:44:03 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | NSA trigger word. | 10:44:05 PM |
| Jason Fowler | -https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - Documentation https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457 - Discussion https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40685 - Meta of issues completed - Stage 1 https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40664 - Meta of issues remaining - Stage 2 |
10:44:49 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | @Michael d - Would that word be a mountain in north Wales? | 10:45:04 PM |
| Eric Merrill | For anybody interested in cluster stuff, I would look at (and comment on) MDL-42071 | 10:45:18 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42071 - Support for split memcache/memcached stores.V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Eric Merrill, Priority: Minor, Status: Development in progress | 10:45:18 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | (I don't disagree with the release notes about oracle, btw) | 10:45:28 PM |
| David Mudrák | It all sounds good. Too good actually. Suspecious. | 10:45:36 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Well of course you would, Eric, it's assigned to you | 10:45:47 PM |
| Eric Merrill | :D | 10:45:52 PM |
| Gareth J Barnard | I have to go, thank you all | 10:46:17 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | ciao, Gareth, ty! | 10:46:31 PM |
| Petr Škoda | split cache is possible - how does it deal with cache coherence? Does it update all servers on write/delete and read from local? | 10:46:33 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | 10:46:40 PM | |
| Eric Merrill | Yes | 10:46:40 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | write many /read 1 | 10:46:43 PM |
| Petr Škoda | yay, sounds very good | 10:46:50 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Hi Prateek | 10:47:38 PM |
| sam marshall | Tim had some concern about adding duplicate headings, which is bad for everyone (especially screenreader users) | 10:48:56 PM |
| Amy Groshek | 10:48:57 PM | |
| sam marshall | Like the general html guidelines look good but there were some changes that appeared to add duplicate headings for page names and stuff | 10:49:23 PM |
| Prateek Sachan | Hi Aparup | 10:49:33 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Sam, is there a link to Tim's concerns? | 10:49:35 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Tims raised that about e.g. LTI where there is an activity name and then the LTI might have it's own heading | 10:49:38 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | we were looking at them | 10:49:39 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | which is a valid concern | 10:49:46 PM |
| sam marshall | probably but I don't know where Just doing this from memory | 10:49:54 PM |
| David Mudrák | sam for mod_page | 10:49:58 PM |
| Amy Groshek | I saw Tim's comment where it referred to SCORM | 10:49:58 PM |
| sam marshall | he didn't tell me to deputise for him or anything, sorry | 10:50:04 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Agreed that duplicate *headings" are bad | 10:50:11 PM |
| Helen Foster | Tim's concerns: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457 | 10:50:12 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | yep scorm and LTI are the same situation | 10:50:17 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | those two have "headings" inside the content areas, they are exceptions | 10:50:39 PM |
| Amy Groshek | It seemed like just a small change in presentation, something users could get used to and which we could hide with css if we really didn't want to change presentation for learners. | 10:50:40 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | so they need to be handled specially | 10:50:43 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | . | 10:50:54 PM |
| Petr Škoda | double yay for somebody working on book! | 10:51:02 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | There is still some duplication with navbar/headings, but I think that's very debatable as a good/bad thing | 10:51:27 PM |
| Helen Foster | book will be really good as shown in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - on the learnmoodle site it didn't look good at all with the book name missing | 10:51:39 PM |
| Justin Filip | Book is pretty terrible right now with a screen reader. | 10:51:45 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Is there a 'screenreader solution' for those duplicate headings | 10:52:06 PM |
| Amy Groshek | I support changing headings for the sake of consistency. Theme developers might have a few minutes of work to do to adjust if maintaining existing look is imperative, but consistency is so important. | 10:52:22 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | where we could hide one (sounds horrible.. but if you look at the actual page) | 10:52:23 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | Why does it need special handling for screen readers? | 10:52:36 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Amy | 10:52:39 PM |
| David Mudrák | Jason, I hope it's still the theme having the full control over it, right? | 10:52:45 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | damyonw: when we've got the same text repeated twice | 10:52:57 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | It's the same issue for sighted users - so IMO we need to fix it for everyone | 10:53:17 PM |
| sam marshall | the problem for screenreaders is if they get things twice, it's annoying | 10:53:21 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yes, its worse for screen readers though | 10:53:30 PM |
| sam marshall | worse than just seeing it twice | 10:53:33 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | (Im talking about the scorm/LTI headings) | 10:53:41 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | yeah, thats what Iw as trying to get at | 10:53:43 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | whats the link to the forum page | 10:53:50 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | let me find it | 10:53:52 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | http://qa.moodle.net/mod/forum/view.php?id=1 | 10:54:13 PM |
| Amy Groshek | If we don't make heading hierarchy consistent, we screw with theming on *every page*. This is a per-module issue. | 10:54:16 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | Petr Å koda: more book related work - https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=mod_klassenbuch | 10:54:42 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Policies: https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MDL%20AND%20component%20%3D%20Policy%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Closed%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC | 10:54:42 PM |
| sam marshall | No problem with consistent, but maybe it should consistently not duplicate headers, instead of consistently duplicating them | 10:54:50 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Amy can you mention that on the forum discussion I linked to? | 10:55:16 PM |
| Petr Škoda | no JS fallback rule falls - mega party | 10:55:36 PM |
| Jason Fowler | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457#p1056543 | 10:55:38 PM |
| Mary Cooch | (lag) links get posted here and then I hear people saying they are about to post a link | 10:55:45 PM |
| Amy Groshek | @Jason, yes, I saw that come through and haven't come back to it yet. Will do. | 10:55:51 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | lol, thats a hell of a lag | 10:55:56 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Martin, we cant' see any links in the youtube feed? | 10:55:57 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Thanks Amy | 10:55:59 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | in fact, we're still stuck on Jason's screen Martin Dougiamas | 10:56:20 PM |
| danbennett | MDL-41535 | 10:56:40 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41535 - POLICY: A non-javascript fallback is not required for new features provided that WCAG 2 AAA is met.V: 0, W: 14, Type: Bug, Assignee: Martin Dougiamas, Priority: Major, Status: Closed | 10:56:40 PM |
| sam marshall | AA*A*, seriously? heh | 10:56:49 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | sam https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d?authuser=0&hl=en | 10:56:58 PM |
| Moodle Bot | http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d - () Unknown. | 10:56:58 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (btw, off topic -thanks Jason for breaking the amy/jason avatar clash :P ) | 10:57:17 PM |
| Eric Merrill | This backup and restore stuff is awesome! | 10:57:34 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Heh. Sorry, @jason, I just couldn't part with mine. | 10:57:37 PM |
| Eric Merrill | Hopefully sam can talk about it | 10:57:42 PM |
| sam marshall | I can talk about it in here if you like, don't think I can get into hangout | 10:57:55 PM |
| Jason Fowler | lol, blame my wife for that - she told me my profile pic wasn't "professional" enough lol | 10:57:55 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | yeah - that's about a 30 second lag here | 10:58:01 PM |
| Jason Fowler | s/blame/thank/ | 10:58:08 PM |
| danbennett | over 1min here | 10:58:08 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | can someone get out of the hangout for sam to join? | 10:58:25 PM |
| Petr Škoda | congrats on the backup/restore issues! | 10:58:38 PM |
| Jason Fowler | there are only 5 of the slots full Dan | 10:58:44 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | Anything else? | 10:58:46 PM |
| sam marshall | All I wanted to say about the backup/restore was basically - there are a bunch of changes in 2.6 I did to show progress in backup/restore, this should basically work, nobody needs to do anything in plugins particularly (unless you've done something strange). | 10:58:47 PM |
| Eric Merrill | And good progress reporting - works well on load balanced slots | 10:58:49 PM |
| Jason Fowler | and look at that, finishing on time it seems | 10:59:08 PM |
| Justin Filip | Yeah, lots of good stuff happening on backup & restore for 2.6. | 10:59:12 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | 24/7 devchat! | 10:59:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | kudos Sam and OU for putting all that work into backup | 10:59:28 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | 10:59:34 PM | |
| Amy Groshek | Were the proposed changes to JS coding standards covered? | 10:59:39 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | I keep meaning to ask - why have you started using backup? :P | 10:59:40 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I've started discussing https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Javascript/Coding_style | 10:59:42 PM |
| sam marshall | sure I was glad they finally let me do it | 10:59:43 PM |
| Amy Groshek | Re: andrew? | 10:59:51 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | But they're not finalised. If people have input there's a forum discussion at http://moodle.org/course/view.php?id=5 | 10:59:58 PM |
| Justin Filip | Backup issue -- https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38189 | 11:00:04 PM |
| Justin Filip | (meta) | 11:00:12 PM |
| sam marshall | dan - we've always used backup backend (not for backup, for e.g. copying course to new presentations). Just the issues got harder to bear. | 11:00:18 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Major lag is present today | 11:00:27 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | 11:00:29 PM | |
| Martin Dougiamas | Ah sorry | 11:00:33 PM |
| Amy Groshek | 11:00:36 PM | |
| Martin Dougiamas | yeah lag makes this not good | 11:00:38 PM |
| Justin Filip | Thanks everyone, 2.6 is looking really good so far. | 11:00:46 PM |
| Jason Fowler | Why Andrew - that link goes to the course page | 11:00:50 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | seems normal lag to me | 11:00:51 PM |
| Andrew Davis | Good night all | 11:00:51 PM |
| Yair Spielmann | Thanks all | 11:00:52 PM |
| danbennett | Roll on 2.6! | 11:00:57 PM |
| Martin Dougiamas | cheers | 11:00:59 PM |
| Damyon Wiese | thanks | 11:00:59 PM |
| Jérôme Mouneyrac | Thanks | 11:01:01 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | bah oops - srry Jason | 11:01:02 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Who is Yair? | 11:01:07 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242639 | 11:01:10 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | we should've had introductions | 11:01:11 PM |
| sam marshall | btw, re backup, thanks to all the other developers (hq etc) who helped reviewing those zillions of issues | 11:01:14 PM |
| Jason Fowler | and why are we using camelCase for the names of things in Javascript? | 11:01:21 PM |
| Jason Fowler | that just seems silly | 11:01:26 PM |
| David Mudrák | Jason: no it does not | 11:01:37 PM |
| raylawrence | bye | 11:01:38 PM |
| Jason Fowler | we bucked the trend for php, despite it being common in php ... | 11:01:46 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Multiple calendar support was added - read abt it at MDL-18375, shouldn't affect anyone here if you don't use anything other than Gregorian. | 11:01:50 PM |
| Moodle Bot | https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-18375 - Displaying and selecting dates throughout Moodle should allow the use of multiple calendars.V: 138, W: 48, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Closed | 11:01:50 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | I've upgraded my perf testing site with current version + a run comparison of 25 and master (note results are not fiable, coz i was doing different things in the laptop while they ran). Just to let you play. http://127.0.0.1/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862×tamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08 |
11:01:53 PM |
| Mark Nelson | Night | 11:02:03 PM |
| Jason Fowler | we should keep things consistent with out other guidlines - css and php | 11:02:04 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | 127.0.0.1 | 11:02:07 PM |
| David Mudrák | Jason, there is JS guideline draft | 11:02:07 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | really eloy | 11:02:09 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | grrr | 11:02:17 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Eloy: n00b | 11:02:19 PM |
| Jason Fowler | DavidMudrak: that's what I am discussing now | 11:02:23 PM |
| Rossiani Wijaya | bye | 11:02:27 PM |
| David Mudrák | the reasoning is to be consistent with YUI which makes perfect sense to me | 11:02:28 PM |
| sam marshall | if you clicked that link, eloy just ownz0red your computer | 11:02:38 PM |
| Petr Škoda | http://n00b/~stronk7 does not work either | 11:02:45 PM |
| Jason Fowler | ah, I hadn't thought of that | 11:02:46 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Jason, that's part of the proposal and is discussed in both the forum thread, and the wiki | 11:02:56 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | idiots | 11:03:03 PM |
| David Mudrák | really, YUI style next to MoodlePHP style lookes weird | 11:03:08 PM |
| Jason Fowler | lol | 11:03:09 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | now i'm not going to paste the public one! lol | 11:03:12 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862×tamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08 | 11:03:20 PM |
| sam marshall | yay | 11:03:33 PM |
| sam marshall | (link works) | 11:03:36 PM |
| Jason Fowler | yeah, I would like to see us using camelCase throughout moodle, but I am just a HQ minion :P | 11:03:40 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | another one | 11:03:40 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | lol | 11:03:41 PM |
| Justin Filip | ? sitecommit:Â 129ceb5 on demand release 2.5beta+ | 11:03:57 PM |
| Jason Fowler | anyway, I am getting up for work in 6 hours | 11:03:59 PM |
| Justin Filip | (From the "After" column) | 11:04:03 PM |
| Jason Fowler | so good night all | 11:04:08 PM |
| David Mudrák | good night | 11:04:16 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | oh yea sleep | 11:04:22 PM |
| Ankit Agarwal | Night | 11:04:26 PM |
| Aparup Banerjee | good night everyone | 11:04:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | I'm essentailyl questioning that issue the best place to change from camelCase into moodle_case | 11:04:27 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | So please: views, feedback, etc. camelCase is the most contentious part, but not the only | 11:04:46 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Note: camelcase in php is not under debate. | 11:04:53 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Indeed - just in JS | 11:05:15 PM |
| sam marshall | heh I prefer camelCase as well, but really don't mind which one people decide on for JS guidelines. What version are these guidelines for, 2.6+? | 11:05:22 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (you guys do enough refactoring already ;P) | 11:05:23 PM |
| sam marshall | or 2.7+? | 11:05:32 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | sam marshall: Once they're enforced, all new JS I presume | 11:05:42 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | We have a bit of a hodge-podge in existing JS in Moodle | 11:05:50 PM |
| sam marshall | OK | 11:06:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (BTW I can't believe this is news to people, after posting in the gdf, this chat AND integration exposed ) | 11:06:34 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | and it's been tweeted | 11:06:47 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | you should be following integration exposed, people | 11:06:52 PM |
| Justin Filip | Dan: slam your fist on a table for emphasis! | 11:07:07 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | *slam* | 11:07:15 PM |
| Andrew Nicols | Andrew Nicols disappears. Please though, commetns and feedback on that issue | 11:07:19 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | What? A loud sound just woke me... | 11:07:41 PM |
| Michael de Raadt | I'm off to bed. Zzzzz. (wave) | 11:07:55 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | jfilip: 2.5beta+ = me an idiot | 11:08:32 PM |
| Justin Filip | Oh, yeah, I see that now in master. ;) | 11:10:58 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | cya! | 11:11:06 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=commit;h=34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c | 11:12:19 PM |
| Moodle Bot | http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c - (Dan Poltawski) on demand release 2.6beta+ master. | 11:12:19 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | lol | 11:12:43 PM |
| Justin Filip | Woo! | 11:13:33 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | I'm going to revert that, rewriting history. Does not follow the commit rules at all! | 11:13:37 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | (thanks dan) | 11:13:46 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | just jealous of jfilip | 11:14:33 PM |
| Justin Filip | Yeah, don't steal my thunder, Eloy! =) | 11:14:49 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | haha | 11:14:58 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | (actually I assumed that eloy had messed up his site and he alerted me to the problem, so I suppose its equally shared) | 11:16:23 PM |
| sam marshall | sam marshall subscribes to 'integration exposed' | 11:21:50 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | note that Sam H has been doing lots of good work on automating the release process so such prizes are quite exclusive, perhaps never to be claimed again :D | 11:24:04 PM |
| Justin Filip | jfilip makes note to propose the "Dan owes me a beer" badge for moodle.org | 11:26:08 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | fine with me as long as I can award the badge 'Owes dan a beer' | 11:26:54 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | it would be great to have a "owed beers badges generator" uhm... | 11:26:55 PM |
| Justin Filip | I think it only makes sense for it to be a two-way street, yeah. | 11:27:16 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | Dan Poltawski makes a note to request multiple badges awarded to same person | 11:27:19 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | of same type | 11:27:34 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | you can issue different labels each time | 11:27:43 PM |
| Justin Filip | Badge multipliers. | 11:27:44 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | 11:27:44 PM | |
| Dan Poltawski | the best thing is that you can't revoke a badge once its been issued | 11:28:18 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | hehe | 11:28:26 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | so every time I see Tim, I'm sorted for the night | 11:28:34 PM |
| Justin Filip | "Congratulations, you have found a bug of +3 Dan owes you a beer." | 11:28:51 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=assignee%20%3D%20timhunt%20and%20text%20~beer%20and%20Integrator%20%3D%20poltawski | 11:30:36 PM |
| Dan Poltawski | damnit, the beers are all from Eloy | 11:31:23 PM |
| Eloy Lafuente | I would not take that literally, lol. | 11:33:29 PM |
