User talk:Jon Witts/file-upload-v2

From MoodleDocs

Note from Jon to Colin

Colin,

I am not to happy with that generic statement. There are far too many users that will not have access to the php.ini file and this could just lead to confusion. We need to be able to guide the user to how their particular server set-up is configured first; and then instruct them what changes to make, or we will be making the issue worse. Jon Witts 09:19, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Colin,

I am editing the links as I type, and I too was thinking about the overall size and complexity of this page. What I am aiming to do with this is get a single Docs page that gives people the information needed to set their server up to allow greater file size uploads. The language and settings should transcend OS and / or web server versions; as we are dealing with either / or Apache and PHP settings; these are common across all OS.

Where we are going to run into difficulty is going to be trying to provide a document for all the hundreds of variations of ways of doing this on hosted servers. I think for these cases we need to arm the reader with enough information to take back to their hosting provider to find out how they will allow it to be done... Jon Witts 21:24, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Colin

Oh, and what is the "Other"??? IIS and Apache, and... What about Mac? Has anyone given any consideration to Macs?--Colin Fraser 08:35, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I also found this M$ Knowledge base article that is about as clear as mud. However, it does name a variable that can be reset, all the user has to do is to find where the variable resides. I have linked the actual article, but it seems this variable is named in several places. Why can it not be simple? --Colin Fraser 08:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I have found this little site that configures FastCGI, something I understand nothing about actually, but that has never stopped me in the past..:) I have included a link, I understand that is is connected to PHP and IIS, so it should be there. --Colin Fraser 11:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The revamp works a lot better than I proposed. The basic information and invitation to read on does what it should do, differentiates between people who know what they are doing, like a lot of network admins and superusers, and beginners without being patronizing, well done, whoever did it..:) --Colin Fraser 10:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Chris, I looked at that, what a great idea, can we develop these two docs to make some serious sense? It would certainly make doing this one a lot easier, and smaller. What do you think Jon? --Colin Fraser 11:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

the two docs being ?? Just to make sure we are clear with each other :)--chris collman 19:56, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
This one Installing Moodle/Creating custom php.ini files and the upload file sizes doc, if that is OK with you and Jon, if he is interested, and whoever wrote the php ini files doc, of course. --Colin Fraser 09:34, 18 March 2010 (UTC).

Hi Jon, I do not disagree with your logic, and did consider it, but for me, the issue is still that users can be drowned in detail before they get to what they are looking for. Suggest we consider the other option, give them the information first, then explain how it works. BTW, if I have it right, IIS uses the php.ini file in the same way as Apache, and it is directly editable. I am going to test this out as soon as I get a new machine and turn my oldest one into a server. I am thinking of creating a Linux box with a Windows virtual server, but time is against me at the moment.--Colin Fraser 12:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I added a short generic comment about what needs be changed, I suggest that this comes first, irrespective of anything else. The way it was there was no mention of what needs be changed until well down the page. The structure this imposes makes what follows a little awkward, or rather what I put in is awkward and does not sit well there, but that is where I think it needs to be. My wording is a little clumsy, and may not be technically correct, so please yourself. Cheers.--Colin Fraser 08:57, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Jon, I certainly agree with your last comment, the myriad of servers is creating a myriad of problems. This is going to mean that whatever is written has to be as generic as possible, which will not please anyone. This also has implications for the next part too.

I doubt there should be any consideration of PHP 4.x apart from the general comment that "what is included here is suitable for later versions of Moodle, post 1.7 PHP 5.x and higher." I do understand that some people are still using older versions, and are unwilling to upgrade, but at what point can they no longer be supported? We could tear our hair out arguing this, but I suggest seriously that a line be drawn and it be acknowledged that older versions are excluded. We all run into this issue, and we should be mindful of the huge changes to be made in the next major upgrade. A lot of what is being written now is going to be obsolete within the year - which will bring further challenge to what we think we should be supporting or not.

To get back on point, there is three references to finding the PHP info, suggest it be shrunk into one. One line to deal with using the PHP Infor link in Administration > Server and the other the link to the manual creation of the php info file. Oops, Late for work now.. cheers --Colin Fraser 21:11, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Later: The question "How is php running on your web server?", to me, looks to be a loaded question, like "when did you stop beating your wife?", or an open ended question, like "how far is up?" or perhaps it is one of those golf ball questions, get a strand and it does not stop unraveling. I would suggest this is, perhaps, worthy of a page on its own. This seems to be getting into the seriously technical aspects of PHP which may not be appropriate on this page. I like the idea of an explanation, but if it is going to appear in Moodle Docs, then it had better be right, detailed enough to be accurate, and simple enough in language so most people can grasp its concepts easily. This is a hugely demanding task, and is certainly outside my abilities.--Colin Fraser 09:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jon, I agree with Chris there, the placing of a link off to other pages for those elements makes sense, leads people to using the Docs a little better. This would also reduce the eventual size of this page a lot - something I have become more aware of recently as a consideration I should be making.

The main block still, I suggest, should be first and that discusses what values need be changed, with a brief explanation of how those values control the upload process possibly, and what they can be changed to. These values, I think, are constant throughout Apache/PHP environment, and I am not sure what they would be in the IIS/PHP environment. Do they retain the same names throughout all environments? What differences are there between different Linux Apache implementations? Are there differences? Or is it just a matter of different approaches to editing? Cheers. --Colin Fraser 21:06, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Chris

Hi Jon, I would put links to the list of levels (excellent) so users can view other pages.

Server level (this page) Moodle site level (site administration block>security>site policies) Course level (course administration block>settings Activity level (for some activities, update activity link) --chris collman 20:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Chris - good idea. I will add those links in... Jon Witts

Just noticed Installing Moodle/Creating custom php.ini files a subpage created by Marc and visited by Jon. Plus the Administration FAQs have a section. I think the FAQ can be reduced once we get our version of this page together. I did put a link to the File upload size page.--chris collman 15:33, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Chris jumped in

Hi spent some time this morning with my coffee doing edits. I check some local hosts of mine from 1.6 to 1.9.7, plus looked a "popular" webhosting service that uses cpanel and another 1.9.7 production site. I ran out of time, but you can see where I am going and that I am learning some stuff.

  • I have not run the phpinfo() script, but note that Moodle will give this info from 1.7 onward, so I would put the emphasis there. Jon will need to state where information is about API is and the key php.ini file.
  • Not sure if we should worry about PHP 4.x but why not.
  • I gather the Server API adds more potential variables, at this moment I am not sure how to treat them in an outline. My "popular" webhost uses CGI/FastCGI, they told me to set the cpanel PHP Config program to "single php.ini" and it told me the active file there. Later I saw our documentation that talked about php 5.x and one file, which meant I was messing with the wrong one :)
  • My vague understanding is that Apache as an API uses .htaccess to override php.ini . However, my "popular" would not let me modify this file in the moodle code directory. I did not try to modify it elsewhere.

Best --chris collman 13:17, 9 March 2010 (UTC)