Developer meeting January 2014

Developer meetings > January 2014 meeting notes

Time	13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 21 January 2014
Meeting room	Moodle HQ YouTube channel (changed since last meeting)
Chat	Regular Dev chat
Twitter	#moodledev

In this meeting we focused on Moodle development happening outside Moodle HQ.

The meeting was streamed live on YouTube with chat through the regular Dev chat room and comments on Twitter.

Meeting Video

<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSKmp6CuVIU</mediaplayer>

Meeting Notes

Possible future changes to Conditional Activities (Sam Marshall, OU)

• More flexible, plug-able conditions
• Better access through groupings
• Better interface, lean and mean
• No docs yet, spec and issues coming

Quiz editing changes (Tim Hunt, Colin Chamber, Mahmoud Kassaei, OU)

• Issue, Discussion
• Dependency between questions as a user works through a quiz
• Improving the interface to make it simpler, similar to course page editing, which people are familiar with.
• Possibly a new "combinable" question type that allows something similar to cloze, but with a simpler interface.
• Possibly other OU question types coming to core. It would be good if the community could provide feedback on what's in the Plugins Directory currently.

Prototypes site (Martin Dougiamas)

• prototypes.moodle.net
• A site for early development to gather feedback
• Projects currently there include navigation, editor replacement, forum changes, outcomes...

Clean as default theme (Jérôme Mouneyrac)

• Notes
• Resolve open bugs
• Default theme on new install
• Increase configurability, requires ability to compile LESS on-the-fly.
• New navigation is being considered
• Adding an element library
• Allow people to add bootswatches
• It intended that we will move most themes to Plugins Directory (not Standard, Clean or base themes)
• Bootstrap 3 has been considered and won't be adopted yet

Editor replacement (Damyon Wiese)

• Docs
• TinyMCE3 is out of support
• Editor is critical part of Moodle and has huge impact on user experience
• Editor search narrowed down to TinyMCE4, CKEditor and Atto.
• Prototypes were put up and feedback requested.
• Tending towards Atto, with a CKEditor in the Plugins Directory for those who want it.

Old Assignment removal (Damyon Wiese)

• Issue
• The old assignment has been removed and on upgrade instances of the old assignment will be converted to the new.
• If you are using an old assignment type that is not represented in the new assignment you will have to install the old assignment module from the Plugins Directory

Outcomes (Andrew Davis)

• [1] Issue, Docs
• A lot of work done on Outcomes before 2.6 that didn't make it into the release.
• We're reviewing Totara and Elis to see what features are needed overall.

New logging (Rajesh Taneja)

• New events system is in place
• Old logging calls are being converted to events
• More information captured than previous logging
• Performance is an issue, with more events being captured
  • Initiatives to optimise DB queries with a single batch insert at the end of a page load.
• Ability to create new observers to reduce the reliance on the log table for real-time analytics
• Logging system is more plugable.
  • Potential to push logs to external database

Moodle Mobile update (Juan Leyva)

• New version of app coming soon
• Potential to use the app from the desktop

Integration update (Dan Poltawski)

• Pre-checking of issues by CiBot (Continuous integration bot) automated checks on changes before they are submitted to integration (waiting for integration, peer review or with label "cime") (Issue)
• Testing requirements
  • PHPUnit or Behat tests required for changes
• Behat improvements
  • Working on Linux and Windows. Firefox is the preferred browser. Chrome is being improved. IE is somewhat working and Safari... (Docs)
  • You can get automatic screenshots when a test fails ($CFG->behat_screenshots_path: link)
  • Parallel Behat testing (issue)
• Misc
  • Specific rules for backporting
  • Please be aware of the weekly integration schedule

Long term support (Martin Dougiamas)

• 2.7 is going to be a long-term release that will be supported for longer (3 years instead of 18months)
• Backports will be required to backport bug-fixes to the LTS release

A better video conferencing solution for Gen Dev meetings? (Michael de Raadt)

• F.lux was suggested
• GoToMeeting (no free)

Questions

• What are the plans in 2.7 for Gradebook improvements?
• Will the base theme no longer receive updates or be actively worked on?
• Anymore changes to the event system? We want to start planning/scoping out analytics/alerts using the new event system in 2.6, but don't want to progress if more changes are expected.
• Global Search ?
• Any plans to actually treat the code freeze deadline as a code freeze for 2.7?

Live Attendees

Adam Olley, Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Ankit Agrawal, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Bennett, Dan Poltawski, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy Lafuente, Eric Merrill, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jason Hardin, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Justin Filip, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Kirsty, Marina Glancy, Mark Johnson, Martin Dougiamas, Martín Langhoff, Mary Cooch, Matthew Spurrier, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Moodle Bot, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kabalin, S Bourget, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshall, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, XY Ng

Meeting chat log

Dan Poltawski	123	9:02:39 PM
Andrew Davis	ping	9:02:42 PM
Dan Poltawski	testing	9:02:43 PM
Michael de Raadt	Hi, all.	9:02:44 PM
Sam Hemelryk	Good morning	9:02:51 PM
Dan Poltawski	commiserations sam	9:03:03 PM
Andrew Davis	what is it there sam h?	9:03:03 PM
David Mudrák	hello	9:03:06 PM
Sam Hemelryk	2am now	9:03:09 PM
Barbara Ramiro	Hi	9:03:16 PM
Andrew Davis	awesome. going out raving after the meeting?	9:03:21 PM
danbennett	Did someone say rave?	9:03:29 PM
sam marshall	techno techno techno techno]#	9:03:46 PM
Sam Hemelryk	unce unce unce	9:03:48 PM
Sam Hemelryk	If someone is using a screen reader here they're probably getting excited!	9:04:15 PM
danbennett	brrrrr wubwubwub do doo doo brrwub	9:04:28 PM
Ruslan Kabalin	Hello	9:04:42 PM
David Monllaó	Hi	9:04:50 PM
sbourget	Hello	9:04:57 PM
sam marshall	hey, by end of the meeting you can play the 'it's 4 o'clock in the morning and it's starting to get light' happy hardcore song, I love that one.	9:04:59 PM
danbennett	Yes! :D	9:05:10 PM
Dan Poltawski	is the link to youtubepasted here?	9:06:23 PM
danbennett		9:06:31 PM
danbennett	Now it is	9:06:38 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I can get chat on my iPad burr some reason Adium is borked	9:06:41 PM
meetingroom	It's live	9:07:01 PM
danbennett	You're on! *waves*	9:07:31 PM
Mary Cooch	we can see you	9:07:33 PM
David Mudrák	Moodle Meetings: you're on my radar	9:07:42 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Sam just said responded to bug reports	9:08:55 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Time the lag	9:08:59 PM
Adrian Greeve	Now	9:09:23 PM
danbennett	now	9:09:27 PM
Mary Cooch	oh wow	9:10:28 PM
Mary Cooch	"or"/not	9:10:39 PM
Dan Poltawski	(do we do introductions/his?)	9:11:04 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Tim you can be next if you want	9:11:36 PM
Tim Hunt	I need to open some browser tabs	9:11:48 PM
Jason Fowler	sorry Im late	9:12:17 PM
Jason Fowler	pidgin doesn't like my laptop	9:12:28 PM
Sam Hemelryk	loving it	9:12:57 PM
Dan Poltawski	I don't know where to comment about this..	9:13:02 PM
Dan Poltawski	but we've got a few things which want pluggable versions of the same thigns now	9:13:15 PM
Dan Poltawski	like badges	9:13:19 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Is there a tracker ticket for these changes?	9:13:27 PM
Dan Poltawski	although now i'm thinking, does badges allow activity level awards	9:13:40 PM
Tim Hunt	OK, I think I am ready.	9:14:12 PM
jfilip	Good [insert appropriate time of day / night here] everyone.	9:16:11 PM
Tim Hunt	I thought badges used conditional activities	9:17:06 PM
Damyon Wiese	Yes, performance will be tough	9:17:59 PM
David Mudrák	Dan P: +1 for trying not to do same things in paralel	9:18:09 PM
Jenny Gray	I can imagine some open courseware sites that would love conditional courses with the same sorts of rules too	9:18:28 PM
Tim Hunt	Hi from Tim at the OU in Milton Keynes.	9:18:42 PM
Dan Poltawski	Hi, Dan from Moodle HQ, Perth Australia	9:18:43 PM
David Monllaó	Hi, my name is David	9:18:54 PM
Davo Smith	Hi, Davo, Synergy Learning (but based in Sheffield)	9:18:59 PM
bmbrands	Hi from the Netherlands!	9:19:06 PM
Jenny Gray	Hi, from Jenny at the OU in Milton Keynes	9:19:06 PM
Jason Fowler	Hello	9:19:08 PM
Tomasz Muras	Hi, Tomek Muras here	9:19:10 PM
Anthony Borrow	Hi from Albuquerque	9:19:10 PM
Frédéric Massart	Hi from Belgium	9:19:11 PM
Adrian Greeve	Hi, Adrian from Moodle HQ, Perth	9:19:11 PM
danbennett	Hello! Dan from HowToMoodle (UK)	9:19:13 PM
Sam Hemelryk	Hi, Sam Hemelryk from Nelson, New Zealand	9:19:15 PM
Jason Fowler	Jason from HQ	9:19:20 PM
sam marshall	sam at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK (as hopefully you noticed from logo on all my slides	9:19:21 PM
Adam Olley	Hi, Adam from NetSpot	9:19:24 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	Hi, Jerome from Moodle HQ, Perth	9:19:25 PM
kirsty	Hi from Kirsty at HowToMoodle	9:19:25 PM
Amy Groshek	Hi from Amy Groshek, Minnesota, US	9:19:25 PM
Barbara Ramiro	Hi from HQ	9:19:27 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Hello, Rex from Los Angeles, CA, USA	9:19:32 PM
Damyon Wiese	hi from HQ	9:19:36 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Hi, Aparup Banerjee, moodle HQ perth	9:19:40 PM
Mary Cooch	Hi from Moodle HQ outpost in Preston Lancs	9:19:41 PM
David Mudrák	Hi, David Mudrak, Czech	9:19:42 PM
sbourget	Hi, Steve from New Hampshire USA	9:19:46 PM
Prateek Sachan	Hi, Prateek Sachan here.	9:19:48 PM
Helen Foster	hi, Helen in Belgium	9:20:04 PM
sam marshall	lol, I liked the 'what the hell are we doing' there	9:21:11 PM
danbennett	Haha	9:21:36 PM
Michael de Raadt	Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming.	9:21:37 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Martin Dougiamas waves from home in Perth	9:21:50 PM
Jenny Gray	wow, sam my time lag is even longer than yours!	9:21:51 PM
Tomasz Muras	so can you define dependency between questions on the question level (so in question bank and not just in the quiz)	9:23:04 PM
Tim Hunt	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987	9:24:27 PM
Tim Hunt	https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180	9:24:33 PM
meetingroom	error at moodlehq	9:25:54 PM
meetingroom	restarting	9:25:57 PM
meetingroom	back now	9:26:22 PM
Dan Poltawski	you look to be back Moodle Meetings	9:26:24 PM
jfilip	I just heard Michael ask everyone to say hi and where they are from. Wow... the lag is going to make asking questions here really difficult.	9:26:25 PM
Dan Poltawski	snap	9:26:27 PM
Tim Hunt	https://github.com/moodleou/moodle-qtype_combined	9:27:11 PM
Dan Poltawski	jfilip: can you think of your questions in advance?	9:27:25 PM
Mary Cooch		9:27:33 PM
jfilip	I just reloaded the G+ event page so hopefully it's less lagged now?	9:28:45 PM
danbennett	We're looking at tims Github screen if that helps jfilip	9:29:09 PM
Tim Hunt	http://www.open.edu/openlearnworks/course/view.php?id=1643	9:29:18 PM
jfilip	Thanks, it looks like you can scroll ahead in the timeline on the YouTube player so I think I'm up much closer to "live".	9:30:23 PM
danbennett	If you click the text saying "live" it should forward you right to it as well. (red dot for watching live, grey for behind)	9:30:51 PM
jfilip	Yes, it's got the red dot showing "Live" since I scrolled ahead. Perfect.	9:31:29 PM
Damyon Wiese	Drag and drop is tough on screen readers	9:32:02 PM
Eric Merrill	+1 on the DnD questions. We love them here.	9:32:29 PM
Damyon Wiese	There are aria guideline for drag and drop. They are complex though	9:33:11 PM
jfilip	We could gather some numbers on usage of qtypes on our customer's sites for contrib types.	9:33:11 PM
Dan Poltawski	lesson: with a decent ui..	9:33:51 PM
Tim Hunt	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Using_the_question_engine_from_module	9:34:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	can we force the camera on martin?	9:36:46 PM
sam marshall	michael, mute microphone please? it keeps switching to you	9:36:50 PM
sam marshall	thanks	9:37:12 PM
Dan Poltawski	I muted him	9:37:12 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	we have	9:37:20 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	we don't see your screen martin	9:38:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	I do	9:38:11 PM
Aparup Banerjee	i do	9:38:25 PM
Andrew Davis	fyi, to stop the screen jumping around you can click on whoever you want it to stay on. click their thumbnail at the bottom of the hangout.	9:39:45 PM
Martin Dougiamas	HQ I hope you are remembering to direct the camera for the recording	9:39:47 PM
Sam Hemelryk	Whers the beers HQ?	9:39:56 PM
Aparup Banerjee	omg no beers	9:40:25 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(it's super hot here, I could really use one)	9:40:29 PM
Jason Fowler	that's a lot of crazy people at HQ ... you know you have to travel home after this ... unless the tenants upstairs can be bribed ...	9:40:55 PM
Aparup Banerjee	TimH just popped on screen for me (again)	9:41:35 PM
sam marshall	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43784	9:41:37 PM
meetingroom	https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097	9:41:38 PM
Damyon Wiese	I have beer. White rabbit.	9:41:59 PM
Mike Churchward	Martin -21C here. (opposite of super hot)	9:42:18 PM
Dan Poltawski	i've got a flask.. of hot water and mint tea..	9:42:24 PM
Aparup Banerjee	yay automatic less compiler in core!	9:43:02 PM
XY Ng	martin: yep we are directing the camera	9:43:15 PM
Tim Hunt	Please stop talking about the element library, and get the code in core!!!	9:43:36 PM
Tim Hunt		9:43:38 PM
Frédéric Massart	(We need elements first ;))	9:43:54 PM
Tim Hunt	No, release early and release often.	9:44:05 PM
Dan Poltawski	MDL-36558	9:44:16 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36558 - Add element library to moodle.V: 11, W: 22, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Sam Hemelryk, Priority: Critical, Status: Development in progress	9:44:17 PM
Tim Hunt	Get the basic strucutre, there, then people can add to it.	9:44:18 PM
Adam Olley	Not sure if it was mentioned, but does the LESS compiler mean we'll get rid of compiled LESS css files from being tracked at all?	9:44:48 PM
bmbrands	jay for bootswatches!	9:44:58 PM
Aparup Banerjee	+1 release early n often n om	9:45:01 PM
Damyon Wiese	Yes it would, they would go in moodledata	9:45:24 PM
Adam Olley	Awesome	9:45:31 PM
danbennett	Ooo i likey	9:45:45 PM
Martin Dougiamas		9:45:47 PM
Adam Olley	compiled less is a pain when cherry picking :P	9:46:07 PM
Frédéric Massart	^	9:46:26 PM
bmbrands	does it do less compiling when setting the bootswatch?	9:46:27 PM
Frédéric Massart	No, this is just a POC	9:46:37 PM
Frédéric Massart	But it could (should?)	9:46:51 PM
Aparup Banerjee	custom css styles go in moodledata too then i guess?	9:47:04 PM
Frédéric Massart	I think they already do	9:47:26 PM
Sam Hemelryk	the do indeed	9:47:40 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	custom css styles should go into the themes	9:47:41 PM
Sam Hemelryk	*they	9:47:49 PM
Aparup Banerjee		9:48:05 PM
Martín Langhoff	ah! here at last! took some work to get empathy working here	9:48:19 PM
Martin Dougiamas	hey hi	9:48:26 PM
Michael de Raadt	Welcome.	9:48:33 PM
Martín Langhoff	I have been enjoying the show over breakfast	9:48:38 PM
Martin Dougiamas	try and look at the agenda and ask your questions 2min in advance	9:48:39 PM
Adrian Greeve	POC = Point Of Care?	9:48:54 PM
Frédéric Massart	Proof of concept	9:49:06 PM
Frédéric Massart	(isn't that right? lol)	9:49:19 PM
Martin Dougiamas	y	9:49:22 PM
Adrian Greeve	Not Piece Of Cake?	9:49:28 PM
Moodle Bot	The cake is a lie adrian. A lie!!!!!!	9:49:28 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Nano, Pico, Atto	9:51:32 PM
Tim Hunt	Are we really, really, sure we want to maintain our own editor?	9:51:46 PM
sam marshall	+1 about text editor being important. I'd be interested in how well it works in narrow width, that's a problem with current..	9:51:48 PM
Martin Dougiamas	tim that is the question that is not decided	9:52:05 PM
Martin Dougiamas	but i have to say I'm tending that way after lots of thinking	9:52:44 PM
Jason Fowler	the greatest benefit of maintaining our own editor is that we never have to worry about upstream changes, abandonment, and the featureset is always what we want. The worst part of that is that we would have to do the work ourselves	9:54:41 PM
Jason Fowler	and there is no community around the editor already	9:54:57 PM
Dan Poltawski	(I am suspicious about all the maths comments.. I know its important, but I also know the maths editor community are very vocal.. have to balance that to average moodle user who doesn't know what moodle.org is)	9:54:58 PM
Frédéric Massart	^	9:55:10 PM
Amy Groshek	Which of these editors have the options configurable, and how accessible is the config? Currently we are trying to alter the options for the editor in the db with an install script. Giving people options is nice, but then they complain when their theme doesn't apply to the text they've borked in the text editor…	9:55:19 PM
Martin Dougiamas	maths is pretty much the same for all editors in that we need to do some custom work for all	9:55:34 PM
Jason Fowler	we asked the survey takers to test the maths editor ...	9:55:47 PM
Tomasz Muras	there was a license issue with dragmath as well	9:55:54 PM
Jason Hardin	The other thing you need to consider with the editor	9:55:56 PM
Jason Hardin	is the 3rd party plugins that use it currently	9:56:02 PM
jfilip	Dragmath and things like voice / audio recording in the editor are very popular 3rd party plugins for our customers.	9:56:07 PM
Jason Hardin	and all of the support you will need to have for them	9:56:09 PM
Jason Fowler	amygroshek: they all have cionfigurable options	9:56:15 PM
Martin Dougiamas	drag math also works not at all on mobile	9:56:15 PM
Jason Hardin	there are several 3rd party math plugins	9:56:17 PM
Jason Fowler	atto is the easiest to configure already	9:56:29 PM
Jason Fowler	and I think TinyMCE 4 is the next easiest	9:56:39 PM
Michael de Raadt	All 3rd party plugins would need to be re-written regardless.	9:56:41 PM
Jason Fowler	followed very very closely by CKEditor	9:56:51 PM
Jason Hardin	sort of	9:56:52 PM
Jason Hardin	some editors will already have plugins for them	9:56:58 PM
Jason Hardin	benefit of a standard os editor	9:57:04 PM
Martin Dougiamas	CK has lots, that's the main advantage of it	9:57:11 PM
Jason Hardin	my plugin should work for Tinymce in all innstances of it	9:57:18 PM
Jason Hardin	atto i have to make a plugin specifically to moodle	9:57:40 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Atto will cost us a lot more	9:57:43 PM
Jason Fowler	Jason Hardin: some will have plugins that can be modified to work, yes, but not all of them can be taken and made to work with Moodle without considerable effort	9:57:50 PM
sam marshall	We have a few editor plugins at the OU (biggest is our maths one). Also need to turn off standard things that don't work well for us... *shrugs*	9:58:18 PM
Amy Groshek	Use Atto. It has less options. = less theme support problems for amy.	9:58:19 PM
Frédéric Massart	Atto is close to what would work on mobile (limited set of options, neat interface)	9:58:21 PM
sam marshall	I'm not that bothered about updating the plugins if we don't have to do it instantly though, it says on that wiki page it'll keep old tinymce for a few versions	9:58:41 PM
jfilip	There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?	9:58:47 PM
sam marshall	Just one thing about simple editor - I 100% agree but our users are probably going to go ape if we take all their features (tables, colour, stupid crap they shouldn't use) from them...	9:59:23 PM
Tim Hunt	For Moodle, the 1/3 row switching is very nice.	9:59:29 PM
sam marshall	not students, but tutors etc	9:59:33 PM
Dan Poltawski	(editor for mobile is stupid IMO. Its going to be built into the mobile os)	9:59:44 PM
jfilip	Sam, educate them =)	9:59:46 PM
Frédéric Massart	Dan P: I agree, different editor (or none) for mobile	10:00:03 PM
sam marshall	jfilip - tried that before	10:00:08 PM
Dan Poltawski	just try and edit a line on a mobile phone with the standrard iphone/android interfaces	10:00:17 PM
Dan Poltawski	its painful, and I imagine they will innovate with their oses	10:00:29 PM
Dan Poltawski	any moodle editor used with conflcit with it when they change	10:00:47 PM
sbourget	Would implementing Atto put in in the same situation we saw with Moodle 1.x with Htmlarea editor?	10:00:47 PM
sam marshall	dan - okay but how do you do, I dunno, insert an image together with upload into moodle filesystem? that needs custom buttons etc	10:00:47 PM
Dan Poltawski		10:00:52 PM
jfilip	Evernote has a really nice mobile editing interface, you can push a "keyboard" button to remove text input and replace that part of your screen with formatting options. It's really smart and easy to use.	10:01:05 PM
Tim Hunt	Stephen, the opposite. HTMLarea was third-pary and it died.	10:01:19 PM
Tim Hunt	If we build atto ourself, it won't die for as long as we use it.	10:01:34 PM
Martín Langhoff	jfilip: is that html5 only or in an app?	10:01:35 PM
jfilip	AFAIK, it's in the app. I've never used their Android app before but that's how the editor works in iOS. It's super handy on a phone screen.	10:02:06 PM
Jason Hardin	I woukld recommend talking to the accesisblity grou[	10:02:36 PM
Eric Merrill	is atto liscensed?	10:02:39 PM
Jason Hardin	about how costly that will be	10:02:40 PM
Eric Merrill	is that where the cost is?	10:02:46 PM
Tim Hunt	Jason, Martin posted there this morning.	10:02:48 PM
Aparup Banerjee	https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto	10:03:17 PM
jfilip	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7	10:03:27 PM
Eric Merrill	Thanks	10:03:47 PM
Martin Dougiamas	RIP mod/assignment	10:04:18 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Martin Dougiamas has another small minute of silence	10:04:36 PM
jfilip	Tracker issue for the mod_assignment removal?	10:05:08 PM
Martin Dougiamas	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952	10:05:35 PM
jfilip	thx	10:05:48 PM
Jason Hardin	On the accessibility group i did see the email breifly this morning. It was 4;30 am when i got up to get to this meeting. I still think it is better to talk to them in the next meeting	10:06:14 PM
sam marshall	(lol at gang sign)	10:06:15 PM
Aparup Banerjee	will mod_assignment live on as an add-on at all ?	10:06:45 PM
jfilip	There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?	10:06:50 PM
Jason Hardin	the editor has been mentioned in previous meetings but I don't know that the group has been focused on the topic.	10:06:54 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah in moodle.org/plugins	10:06:55 PM
Martin Dougiamas	isn't it there already? Should be	10:07:05 PM
Dan Poltawski	can't add 2.7 plugins yet	10:07:14 PM
Damyon Wiese	Not yet.	10:07:24 PM
Eric Merrill	HQ: change the feed view	10:07:33 PM
Damyon Wiese	What dan said	10:07:36 PM
Aparup Banerjee	roger	10:07:45 PM
jfilip	Is there a wiki page for this latest outcomes work?	10:09:02 PM
Eric Merrill	The youtube feed is still looking at Damyon and gang	10:09:04 PM
jfilip	( / research / etc. )	10:09:13 PM
Dan Poltawski	where are you listening to Eric?	10:09:17 PM
Ruslan Kabalin	It is a shame, I do not know (recognise) anyone of those 7 who is sitting at the table, can someone list their names	10:09:23 PM
Dan Poltawski	Raj is with Damyon	10:09:23 PM
Michael de Raadt	jfilip: Not as yet.	10:09:25 PM
Martin Dougiamas	MDL-40230	10:09:27 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 - Integrate Outcomes stage 2 into core.V: 3, W: 34, Type: Bug, Assignee: Mark Nielsen, Priority: Blocker, Status: Reopened	10:09:28 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	jfilip: basically we didn't make any decision about hiding/removing themes . I think the best it's to go to each issues. About bootstrap3 it's most likely we won't have it in 2.7.	10:09:29 PM
jfilip	Thanks, Jerome.	10:09:59 PM
Frédéric Massart	mouneyrac: Do you have the link to that document we made, including the BS3 details?	10:10:07 PM
Dan Poltawski	Ruslan Kabalin: testing my short term memory.. Jerome, XY, Rosie, Raj, David Mo, Ankit, Damyon	10:10:23 PM
Marina Glancy	Jerome, XY, Rossie, Raj, DavidMo,	10:10:28 PM
Martin Dougiamas	See MDL-40177 about Bootstrap 3	10:10:33 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	yes it's in the document I lined and in the issue too	10:10:34 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40177 - Update to Bootstrap v3.V: 7, W: 19, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open	10:10:34 PM
Marina Glancy	I was late	10:10:35 PM
Ruslan Kabalin	thanks	10:10:44 PM
Tim Hunt	I still have this serious concern about the logging stuff. Look at the diff stat for https://github.com/markn86/moodle/compare/master...MDL-40063_master "Showing 35 changed files with 1,599 additions and 35 deletions. " This is a change that bring no user-visible benefit. How to we justify that huge lines-of-code count? Surely this is a clear sign that the design if flawed.	10:11:09 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40063 - Replace add_to_log with an event trigger - mod_quiz.V: 0, W: 4, Type: Task, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Reopened	10:11:10 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ktkigIsJrxcqPeHWcDdRANA1072JVZZ0azg0INo6v48/edit#heading=h.mhopzjiavfyi	10:11:15 PM
Damyon Wiese	Petr is off-screen. Lucky.	10:11:22 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	that's the bootstrap3 link	10:11:27 PM
Andrew Davis	jfilip, see https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 and https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification for the outcomes system from Moodlerooms. A document detailing what features we want based on examining the moodlerooms system as well as Totara and Elis will appear in the next few days.	10:11:47 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Logging is eventually about analytics and notifications, real-time	10:12:19 PM
danbennett	Liking the look of this!	10:12:23 PM
sam marshall	logging looks nice in the UI, but we have a potential concern with performance as it's a massive cost in the current system already - especially if there are more things logged. (I.e. at the moment a typical student page view logs 1 thing - is that still true?)	10:12:33 PM
Marina Glancy	We store more information about an event, that's true	10:13:23 PM
sam marshall	Could we change it to chuck it into a local file or something instead, for instance?	10:13:25 PM
sam marshall	(with custom logging plugin)	10:13:30 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah sure	10:13:33 PM
Marina Glancy	But you can set up not to store some	10:13:36 PM
sam marshall	ah OK, single insert sounds good	10:13:38 PM
jfilip	Andrew, thanks.	10:13:43 PM
Martin Dougiamas	the profile of Moodle will change. Some things will be slower, but some things will be faster	10:14:01 PM
Dan Poltawski	MDL-34055	10:14:02 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34055 - Database function for fast bulk inserts.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Major, Status: Waiting for peer review	10:14:03 PM
sam marshall	ok this sounds good - thanks. Just had concern because it's probably one of the slowest things at present.	10:14:20 PM
Rex Lorenzo	What are the different types? You mentioned "Educational", what are the others?	10:14:34 PM
Martin Dougiamas	well yeah that's why building analytics on top of it is a bad idea	10:14:43 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(old logs)	10:14:48 PM
Tim Hunt	I am not sure that I am convinced by the 'it is pluggable so we can do antyhing' argument. editors are pluggable, so we now have a big debate about which editor to implement, and a lot of work to do it.	10:14:56 PM
sam marshall	(At OU we don't do anything that reads log table I think - we've disabled all those things.)	10:15:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	you can ignore our editor :D	10:15:13 PM
Tim Hunt	No, you can';t What we really want is one editor that works for everyone. If that is possible.	10:15:34 PM
sam marshall	*nods* got it, thanks.	10:15:48 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Plugins with special needs can listen direct to events instead of parsing logs	10:16:16 PM
Marina Glancy	Another benefit is ability for reports NOT to use log table	10:16:22 PM
Marina Glancy	Grr I'm always slow on this iPad	10:16:36 PM
sam marshall	Great - looks good.	10:16:41 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Petr is surprisingly quiet	10:17:36 PM
sam marshall	thanks for answering all the questions	10:17:46 PM
Tim Hunt	Sorry, you answered my point?	10:18:10 PM
Tim Hunt	I don't think so.	10:18:17 PM
Damyon Wiese	Editor?	10:18:43 PM
sam marshall	tim - the editor one or the thousands of lines of code one?	10:18:51 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Which point Tim?	10:18:59 PM
Tim Hunt	SO, to conver the add-to-log calls in the quiz, 35 lines of existing code are repalced by 1600 lines of new code. How is that anything other than the sign of a totally broken API?	10:19:04 PM
Marina Glancy	Lines of code in logging	10:19:10 PM
sam marshall	yes we see it	10:19:12 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	yes	10:19:16 PM
Aparup Banerjee	no browser yet	10:19:49 PM
Dan Poltawski	I see the browser	10:19:56 PM
Aparup Banerjee	ah got it now	10:20:01 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Perhaps some backend folks want to answer why the API is not broken	10:20:03 PM
meetingroom	It is important to have more lines to have reliable, constant information	10:20:04 PM
meetingroom	or quiz is broken	10:20:15 PM
Damyon Wiese	No trolling please	10:20:47 PM
Tim Hunt	It is important to have reliable, constant information. I am not convince that requires thousands of lines of code.	10:20:50 PM
meetingroom	Sorry about that.	10:20:56 PM
Tim Hunt	Moodel Meetings, woudl you like to say who you are?	10:21:07 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Martin Dougiamas never liked all the classes nonsense	10:21:22 PM
Tomasz Muras	I also have doubts about new logging - I'm not sure what are we really getting here in return for more complexity. What kind of real life issue are we solving?	10:21:36 PM
Adrian Greeve	Most of that is class declarations and unit tests.	10:21:37 PM
Damyon Wiese	Me too	10:21:45 PM
sam marshall	yes breaking up here too	10:21:45 PM
jfilip	Wait, Tim are you saying that 35 lines that were previously executed to write a log now goes through 1600 lines or 1600 lines is just the total of the patch?	10:21:48 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	yes for us too	10:21:49 PM
sam marshall	making quite nice bell type noises	10:21:51 PM
danbennett	here too	10:22:14 PM
meetingroom	Rajesh: We need to have some framework which can check adde to event	10:22:16 PM
Dan Poltawski	lines of code is a stupid metric for anything.	10:22:17 PM
Martín Langhoff	bad audio here too	10:22:20 PM
Sam Hemelryk	I'm loosing sound	10:22:23 PM
bmbrands	here to	10:22:24 PM
Aparup Banerjee	breaking up	10:22:24 PM
marxjohnson00	yep	10:22:29 PM
Martín Langhoff	speaker needs a cat5	10:22:33 PM
jfilip	Also, lines of source code doesn't translate to interpreted opcode being executed.	10:22:53 PM
Damyon Wiese	Yes, events are more complex than addtolog but add to log was adhoc and not guaranteed to be useful	10:23:17 PM
jfilip	But, to bring it around, yes, profiling logging before / after those changes will be very important.	10:23:20 PM
Tim Hunt	Dan P, in term of mainteneance, number of lines of code thta have to be written to fire one event is a reasonable metric.	10:23:23 PM
Dan Poltawski	your painting an extreme picture	10:23:37 PM
Martín Langhoff	yeah, less code is always better if possible	10:23:43 PM
Dan Poltawski	looking at that code ~50% is unit tests	10:23:49 PM
Dan Poltawski	probably another 25% is comments	10:24:10 PM
Martín Langhoff	now, smartly written code can still hit the hot paths	10:24:18 PM
meetingroom	Petr: please stop complaining about new events, it is part of public API since 2.6, it is nit going away, it works for new reports so far	10:24:23 PM
Martín Langhoff	so it's hard to tell without reading / profiling	10:24:28 PM
Tim Hunt	Dan P, if representing one event is so complex, it requires unit tests to verify the code is correct, I don't think that is a good sign.	10:24:40 PM
Frédéric Massart	It's not just lines, it's a different API, thus different way of working. Switching from a single function call to an OO model had to create more lines	10:24:50 PM
Tim Hunt	Fred, exactly. I see no evidence that is a good trade-off.	10:25:10 PM
Adrian Greeve	Everything New requires either unit or begat test s regardless of complexity.	10:25:33 PM
danbennett	Juan: Sorry I couldn't hear very well. This OS X app of moodle mobile available now or with the latest release?	10:25:33 PM
Dan Poltawski	is there any audio atm?	10:25:44 PM
Tim Hunt	adrian, so don't require a new class for every single event.	10:25:46 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Dan, v soon	10:25:57 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	dan: yes	10:25:59 PM
danbennett	Cool!	10:26:07 PM
meetingroom	Raj: It would be nice to look at Log and live log reports changes and it gives more information and better filtering.	10:26:26 PM
Martin Dougiamas	We just need more people getting around this Mobile client and extending it	10:26:38 PM
Dan Poltawski	Am I the only person who can't hear anything?	10:26:49 PM
Dan Poltawski	in the hangout?	10:26:55 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Audio good for me	10:27:00 PM
Aparup Banerjee	youtube audio is fine	10:27:02 PM
Michael de Raadt	I can hear but not see Juan.	10:27:03 PM
Dan Poltawski	leaving and coming back	10:27:08 PM
sam marshall	it worked ok for me	10:27:22 PM
Tomasz Muras	audio works fine for me as well	10:27:29 PM
Adrian Greeve	Any change to logging would generate more test code regardless of the architecture.	10:27:43 PM
Damyon Wiese	Do you have many stats on the numbers of app downloads of the old versions?	10:28:05 PM
Aparup Banerjee	is messages.moodle.net going to serve anyone who want to use notifications out there?	10:28:06 PM
meetingroom	Raj: If we don't add class then we need to process every event, which needs more processing and sometimes unreliable information (Legacy events which were added previously was good example that one line code is not always good… )	10:28:23 PM
Tim Hunt	adrian, it is a scalability thing. Does every new event requrie new unit tests, O, or does just the core of the system require unit tests, optimisation, etc. O(1).	10:28:27 PM
Tim Hunt	Should be the latter.	10:28:31 PM
Tim Hunt	An event is just data, not behaviour.	10:28:57 PM
danbennett	Juan is there a doc for the nodewebkit/moodle mobile app stuff on moodle.org? Be interesting to see it	10:29:00 PM
Tim Hunt	There should be no functionality to test.	10:29:05 PM
Frédéric Massart	There is a need for data validation	10:29:24 PM
Jason Fowler	the functionality and test should be of the API, not the individial events ...	10:29:30 PM
Tim Hunt	JAson, yes, but that is not how it currently works.	10:29:48 PM
Jason Fowler	but if each event is it's own function, then a unit test will be required...	10:29:57 PM
Jason Fowler	in theory	10:30:04 PM
meetingroom	Events don't get introduced every day. It should be tested and added with proper thought.	10:30:05 PM
Damyon Wiese	I asked about download stats for the app	10:30:05 PM
Tim Hunt	Exactly. 'IF;	10:30:08 PM
jleyva@jabber.org	https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop	10:30:32 PM
Dan Poltawski	Links for integration update: [1] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 [2] cime [3] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Browsers [4] $CFG->behat_screenshots_path: http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=blob;f=config-dist.php#l659 [5] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting [6] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Schedule [7] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39752	10:30:34 PM
danbennett	Thans Juan!	10:30:47 PM
Damyon Wiese	Nope	10:31:27 PM
sam marshall	we can hear you dan	10:31:27 PM
sam marshall	cibot looks suspiciously like a smurf	10:31:49 PM
jleyva@jabber.org	Aparup messages.moodle.net is only for registered Moodle sites	10:32:48 PM
Aparup Banerjee		10:32:59 PM
Tim Hunt	cime	10:33:12 PM
Jason Fowler	cime doesn't pay ...	10:33:33 PM
Michael de Raadt	:D	10:33:47 PM
jfilip	cime is great	10:33:56 PM
Martin Dougiamas	comme ci, comme ca	10:34:09 PM
David Monllaó	I'm addicted to cime	10:34:18 PM
Dan Poltawski	MDLSITE-2662	10:34:20 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 - First public runs of prechecker against various criteria.V: 1, W: 5, Type: Task, Assignee: Eloy Lafuente (stronk7), Priority: Minor, Status: Open	10:34:21 PM
danbennett	Just been asked by Ray Lawrence whether theres any info regarding decisions of server requirements for 2.7 if thats able to be covered today. (Don't shoot the messenger!! :P)	10:35:14 PM
Martin Dougiamas	it's NOT perfect???	10:35:15 PM
Aparup Banerjee	cime watch!	10:35:18 PM
Damyon Wiese	We do shifter checks on all issues, but its a different bot	10:35:59 PM
sam marshall	phpunit which is easy to install and behat which is impossible to install ;)	10:36:03 PM
Ankit Agarwal	Mdk ftw	10:36:35 PM
Damyon Wiese	No. Behat is easy	10:36:36 PM
Aparup Banerjee	with less compiler being considered to go into core as the in-built thing - any same ideas for shifter?	10:36:43 PM
Tim Hunt	No it isn't.	10:36:45 PM
Tim Hunt	It is getting easier.	10:36:50 PM
David Monllaó	Ask OU bosses to let you install serious OS	10:36:57 PM
Tim Hunt	LOL	10:37:03 PM
Frédéric Massart	lol	10:37:04 PM
sam marshall	good idea, but	10:37:09 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Dan Bennet: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.7_release_notes	10:37:11 PM
danbennett	Martin: Yeah I did say to him ... thanks	10:37:28 PM
Martin Dougiamas	that's current, AFAIK	10:37:38 PM
danbennett	for now ;) haha	10:37:44 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I doubt it will change further	10:38:02 PM
danbennett	ok	10:38:06 PM
David Monllaó	Please, report issues and we can work on them	10:38:14 PM
sam marshall	I know I'm going to have to make behat work (for the conditional activity thing) and am dreading it	10:39:05 PM
Martin Dougiamas	then you will love it	10:39:22 PM
Tim Hunt	Actually, sam, it works for me now.	10:39:26 PM
Tim Hunt	Except that I get random failures.	10:39:31 PM
Ruslan Kabalin	Dan P, great slides!	10:39:51 PM
Damyon Wiese	Be hat + phantomjs is great (even on windows)	10:39:55 PM
sam marshall	tim - Oh, it works now? Are there instructions? Thanks for reassurance, sorry I should be less sarcastic then	10:40:08 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yes, nice slides!	10:40:12 PM
Tim Hunt	Sarcasm is good.	10:40:21 PM
Tim Hunt	https://gist.github.com/danpoltawski/8036489	10:40:33 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Thats David Monllao serving up a paella	10:40:42 PM
Tim Hunt	I really ought to copy that to docs.	10:40:44 PM
Frédéric Massart	LOL	10:40:50 PM
danbennett	Great pic lol	10:40:51 PM
Tim Hunt	Looks good.	10:40:56 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Paella!	10:41:00 PM
Tomasz Muras	So we want to fix coding style in the line that happened to be edited for another purpose - e.g. https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43040 (I think that's a good idea, why not)	10:41:13 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Also that's exactly what behat code looks like	10:41:21 PM
David Monllaó	Aparup's home rules	10:41:26 PM
Adam Olley	screenshot - i like that	10:42:46 PM
Damyon Wiese	Or have no wwwroot	10:43:10 PM
Tim Hunt	Damyon: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43246#comment-265751	10:43:18 PM
Tim Hunt	Quite a long time == overnight.	10:43:34 PM
Tim Hunt	OK 4 or 6 hours for me.	10:44:07 PM
Martin Dougiamas	on windows?	10:44:12 PM
Tim Hunt	Yes.	10:44:15 PM
Michael de Raadt	About the same for me.	10:44:21 PM
Tim Hunt	Is that a subtle hint about how to bribe the integrators.	10:44:33 PM
Tim Hunt	?	10:44:36 PM
Damyon Wiese	Thanks tim, will look first thing tomorrow	10:44:45 PM
Martin Dougiamas	There was a problem found in Linux with ext4, that our tests took something like 10x longer than ext3 …. perhaps someone else can elaborate	10:45:07 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(I know it sounds crazy)	10:45:20 PM
jfilip	There are fs options you can add to ext4 mount points to make them run a lot faster.	10:45:43 PM
sam marshall	I missed the thing about docblocks/backports - is there a url for this policy?	10:45:52 PM
Martin Dougiamas	AFAIK no-one here found them	10:45:58 PM
Tim Hunt	sam, yes.	10:46:04 PM
Tim Hunt	Scroll back.	10:46:10 PM
sam marshall	oh sorry	10:46:15 PM
Damyon Wiese	Reject	10:46:47 PM
jfilip	This is what I use for ext4 on my workstation -- rw,noatime,seclabel,nobarrier,nouser_xattr,errors=remount-ro	10:46:48 PM
Martin Dougiamas	thanks Justin, hope that helps someone	10:47:18 PM
Aparup Banerjee	i heard about a blackbook Dan	10:47:33 PM
sam marshall	the bit about doc blocks in backports doesn't seem to be mentioned in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting unless I am missing something	10:47:52 PM
Tim Hunt	Hopefully the code freeze will be more relaxed for you this time	10:47:54 PM
jfilip	But, yeah, when I first switched to ext4 a year or two ago I did notice a dramatic slowdown until I did some digging for options to speed it up.	10:48:04 PM
Michael de Raadt	Sounds like the new MySQl	10:48:30 PM
jfilip	So, is the code freeze for 2.7 going to be a code freeze or more of a light frost?	10:48:56 PM
Damyon Wiese	We discuss in I team and agree, then someone has to update the doc. It will happen soon	10:49:01 PM
Michael de Raadt	Very cold.	10:49:09 PM
Damyon Wiese	Soon(TM)	10:49:21 PM
Tim Hunt	I missed the key number. Is this 2.7 or 2.6 that will be LTS?	10:49:43 PM
jfilip	No more integrating non-bug fix work the week or two before scheduled release?	10:49:47 PM
Michael de Raadt	2.7	10:50:19 PM
Damyon Wiese	No integrating half done things the week before freeze	10:50:32 PM
Tim Hunt	Oh. Woldn't it be better to do risky infrastrucutre chagnes after the LTR?	10:50:40 PM
Dan Poltawski	jfilip: we are very firm about it in the integration team for this release	10:50:55 PM
jfilip	Damyon: *cheers*	10:51:00 PM
Eric Merrill	Will the LTS version need backports of all bugs?	10:51:20 PM
marxjohnson00	If it's based on usage/installation, you'll never be able to drop it	10:51:31 PM
marxjohnson00	people will always avoid upgrades unless they have to, look at WinXP	10:51:49 PM
Dan Poltawski	Dan Poltawski just wonders about alll.. the bug fixes	10:52:00 PM
sam marshall	Is no there a distinction on which bugs?	10:52:03 PM
sam marshall	because there are LOADS of bugfixes and some are not very serious and it's been broken forever	10:52:15 PM
Dan Poltawski	IMO, the important thing is security and serious bugfixes	10:52:40 PM
sam marshall	OK	10:52:40 PM
Dan Poltawski	some of the nigly bugs people can livewith	10:52:51 PM
Dan Poltawski	(and often they can cause small changes in behaviour)	10:53:04 PM
jfilip	New JIRA label for lts bugs? =)	10:53:05 PM
Adam Olley	was it mentioned how long roughly it'd be LTS'd for?	10:53:25 PM
sam marshall	3 yrs	10:53:44 PM
sam marshall	(just echoing Martin for chat	10:53:49 PM
Tim Hunt	So, 2.7, 2.13, 2.19 ?	10:53:49 PM
Adam Olley	thanks sam	10:53:54 PM
Dan Poltawski	-1 to lag	10:54:20 PM
Dan Poltawski	its like prerecording the meeting, and then watching it again and discusisng it	10:54:50 PM
Dan Poltawski	(in fact that would prob work better)	10:54:56 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Also chat not archived with video	10:54:58 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Also Google	10:55:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	yeah, the streaming is great, its just the interaction which is a problem	10:55:28 PM
Martin Dougiamas	it's designed for broadcasting really	10:55:52 PM
jfilip	It's nice that Hangouts on Air have 720p video now. It makes a shared browser window actually readable. =)	10:56:07 PM
Dan Poltawski	(wait for the lag, michael :P)	10:56:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I'd prefer open source and BBB but it was just falling short with larger numbers	10:56:15 PM
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)	Offtopic: Looking to Michael in the darkness... and the reflection on his glasses... do you know F.lux? It works great: http://justgetflux.com	10:56:15 PM
jfilip	+1 to f.lux	10:56:34 PM
danbennett	F.lux is wonderful	10:56:35 PM
jfilip	=)	10:56:36 PM
danbennett	GoToMeeting at all Michael? just a thought	10:56:53 PM
sam marshall	i think that's about cvhanging screen brightness	10:56:54 PM
danbennett	Not free tho to be fair	10:57:05 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Needs to cope with 100 people	10:57:11 PM
jfilip	Michael, we've got someone on our team doing a personal project to research shared communication / meeting systems. If something interesting comes out of it we'll share the findings.	10:57:18 PM
sam marshall	we could code one ourself! I just built a voice recorder using html5, it's totally reliable*.	10:57:29 PM
sam marshall	* I am lying	10:57:34 PM
danbennett	Maybe a Moodle video conference plugin? lol	10:57:42 PM
Aparup Banerjee	no f.lux is for your screen brightness ..	10:57:44 PM
Dan Poltawski	we coudl stream to youtube on top of whatever we do, no?	10:58:02 PM
Dan Poltawski	btw mic unplugged michael?	10:58:12 PM
sam marshall	oops audio cut off? or just me? oh it's back	10:58:13 PM
jfilip	Smoke signals and really powerful telescopes.	10:58:17 PM
Dan Poltawski	back now	10:58:23 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	now yes	10:58:23 PM
sam marshall	cut off again	10:58:31 PM
sam marshall	back	10:58:32 PM
sam marshall		10:58:33 PM
Aparup Banerjee	mic gone soft	10:58:37 PM
danbennett	Seems the mic has some kind of crazy limiter lol	10:58:38 PM
Dan Poltawski	lol	10:58:42 PM
sam marshall	oops, cut out again..	10:58:47 PM
Sam Hemelryk	v quiet	10:58:47 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah	10:58:48 PM
Michael de Raadt	Over to yuo...	10:59:16 PM
sam marshall	NSA	10:59:17 PM
Matthew Spurrier	jfilip: i certainly wouldn't recommend using nobarrier, you lose power, you have the potential to lose a lot of data.. also noatime,nodiratime are risky for auditing/security purposes	10:59:26 PM
Damyon Wiese	Too many torrents	10:59:34 PM
jfilip	Matt, it's just my workstation on a battery backup.	10:59:57 PM
jfilip	It's not a server. =)	11:00:06 PM
Matthew Spurrier	yah, just pointing it out, just in case ;)	11:00:14 PM
jfilip	Yeah, you're correct. For something that is "important" or might go down, poorly, those options won't really work.	11:00:39 PM
Andrew Nicols	Nigel McNie (former Catalyst/Mahara) was working on a VC type solution. I'll ping him and find out	11:00:46 PM
Rex Lorenzo	BBB had a new release	11:00:58 PM
Michael de Raadt	Audio is breaking up for me. Am I alone?	11:01:19 PM
Rossiani Wijaya	audio seems fine here	11:01:35 PM
Tim Hunt	Do they have an Epic for this in the tracker?	11:02:00 PM
meetingroom	half of the gradebook proposal comes from David Mudrak…	11:03:30 PM
Tim Hunt	For the Aus cahgnes?	11:03:34 PM
Tim Hunt	Would be good to group them with an Epic.	11:03:42 PM
Tim Hunt	You can add it to the meeting notes later.	11:03:58 PM
Tim Hunt	OK	11:04:22 PM
Dan Poltawski	Rex asked the questions	11:05:04 PM
Michael de Raadt	I've been booted and can't get back in. That's telling for Hangouts.	11:05:23 PM
Dan Poltawski	there have been 2 this week..	11:06:13 PM
meetingroom	no major changes expected, just more improvements	11:06:20 PM
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)	bootstrapwood is coming back!	11:06:26 PM
Dan Poltawski	apart from the two this week, Petr?	11:06:33 PM
Tim Hunt	I asked earlier if we ahd to convert events in our add-ons when we ugprade to 2.6,and Petr said wait for 2.7.	11:06:34 PM
danbennett	Once you go bootstrap you never go booback	11:06:35 PM
sam marshall	Random question: what's up with the namespace stuff in code - are we supposed to use that for all new core code in 2.7? If so is it documented?	11:06:35 PM
Dan Poltawski	Sam: MDLSITE-2549	11:07:02 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2549 - Rules for namespacing.V: 0, W: 7, Type: Bug, Assignee: Dan Poltawski, Priority: Minor, Status: Open	11:07:03 PM
Tim Hunt	https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14661 https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14662	11:07:05 PM
Tim Hunt	No docs in the 2.6 release notes to explain the events changes.	11:07:20 PM
sam marshall	Thanks Dan! So, it is not yet defined? OK	11:07:22 PM
Tomasz Muras	yeah, I've put GS there	11:08:03 PM
Aparup Banerjee	https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=239646 Prateek is on as well	11:08:06 PM
Aparup Banerjee	MDL-31989	11:08:18 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31989 - Global Search 2.V: 48, W: 56, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Prateek Sachan, Priority: Major, Status: Open	11:08:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	sam marshall: i'm afraid its a bit undefined yep	11:08:29 PM
Rex Lorenzo	What is the link to the Moodle Docs?	11:08:34 PM
Rex Lorenzo	For new features, will they still be tested/supported on base?	11:08:34 PM
Dan Poltawski	its another one on the integration team list	11:08:58 PM
sam marshall	dan - Let's say I start building the conditional availability changes tomorrow, am I okay to not learn how to use namespaces? Is the question.	11:09:06 PM
Damyon Wiese	If its in core still, then yes	11:09:07 PM
Eric Merrill	Martin Dougiamas: Reload the wiki page, someone added a line	11:09:09 PM
jfilip	Rex, that came up earlier: yes. New UI changes should be tested on Base and Clean.	11:09:09 PM
Jenny Gray	Another random question: what's happening (if anything) with survey 2.0?	11:09:17 PM
Tim Hunt	I found it hard to believe!	11:09:19 PM
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)	I really hate people "registering" words like "task" and others without any control. We should not allow first-to-land-wins liberty there. But look for a limited vocabulary. (after thinking about it like 10^6 times)	11:09:30 PM
Tim Hunt	Ther is a link to the tracker issue, but htat is all.	11:09:43 PM
Damyon Wiese	More important than name spaces is auto loading, which is great	11:09:48 PM
Dan Poltawski	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading	11:09:58 PM
Tim Hunt	Shall I create a MDLSITE?	11:10:04 PM
Tim Hunt	For docs for how to upgrade your add-on?	11:10:12 PM
sam marshall	damyon - auto loading used to work without namespaces, not sure it still does or not	11:10:18 PM
Prateek Sachan	Hi Aparup, Tomasz!	11:10:21 PM
jfilip	MDL-39797 - New events infrastructure https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.6_release_notes#For_developers:_API_changes	11:10:22 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39797 - META: Events 2.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Epic, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Closed	11:10:23 PM
Dan Poltawski	just tell petr to stop removing dev_docs_required off his issues with 1 line	11:10:23 PM
Tim Hunt	That is system spect, not advice for add-on authros.	11:10:26 PM
sam marshall	(Dan - thanks for doc)	11:10:49 PM
Damyon Wiese	Auto loading works with or without	11:10:53 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Hi Prateek	11:10:57 PM
danbennett	Oooh pretty new homepage	11:12:12 PM
sam marshall	i like the colours	11:12:33 PM
Prateek Sachan	Everything is pretty good.	11:13:18 PM
Tim Hunt	MDLSITE-2710	11:13:18 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2710 - The Moodle 2.6 release notes need to make it clear to add-on authors how to upgrade their plugins for the events changes.V: 0, W: 0, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open	11:13:19 PM
Tim Hunt	Thanks all	11:14:20 PM
sam marshall	thanks everyone sorry for the people who stayed up late...	11:14:21 PM
danbennett	Great stuff!	11:14:33 PM
jfilip	Thanks, all.	11:14:37 PM
Aparup Banerjee	next dev mtg?	11:14:40 PM
Damyon Wiese	Cya	11:14:41 PM
Martin Dougiamas	3 months	11:14:44 PM
Andrew Davis	night all	11:14:45 PM
Rossiani Wijaya	byeee	11:14:49 PM
Aparup Banerjee	roger gdnite!	11:14:53 PM
Adam Olley	2am is a perfectly acceptable sleep time :P	11:14:58 PM
bmbrands	bye all	11:15:02 PM
Aparup Banerjee	rave!	11:15:02 PM
Jenny Gray	sam - was this the music you wanted to end on?	11:15:04 PM
Sam Hemelryk	Thanks everyone - have a great yesterday	11:15:04 PM
Martin Dougiamas	off to find an air conditioner now	11:15:05 PM
Ankit Agarwal	Bye!	11:15:10 PM
Michael de Raadt	I need a burger.	11:15:15 PM
Sam Hemelryk	Perfect timing with the music	11:15:19 PM
Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)		11:15:22 PM
meetingroom	Thanks all	11:15:53 PM
Dan Poltawski	sam: david fixed the cygwin problem	11:17:20 PM
Ruslan Kabalin	Bye, thanks everyone	11:17:21 PM
Dan Poltawski	and we need help from newbies identifiying the gaps in the intructions	11:17:56 PM
Dan Poltawski	its practiaclly the same as phpunit in terms of setup, except that unlike phpunit it needs a webserver and browser server	11:20:04 PM

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