Developer meeting October 2013

Developer meetings > October 2013 meeting notes

Time	13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 22 October 2013
Meeting room	Moodle Meetings YouTube channel
Chat	Regular Dev chat
Twitter	#moodledev

In this meeting we will focus on the upcoming Moodle release.

Meeting video

<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZBUmoZuZ18</mediaplayer>

Meeting Notes (WIP)

• Moodle 2.6 progress
  • New features - Martin
  • QA testing - Helen
• Question behaviours can now add summary information to the quiz review page - Tim Hunt
• Quick data generation in your Moodle site - Marina
• Performance Testing - David M
• Plugins status - Aparup
• Plugin management, subplugins - Petr
• Sessions changes - Petr
• HTML guidelines and heading consistency fixes in 2.6 - Jason
• Backup and restore of large courses now much more reliable - sam marshall
• Can I make it so activities can own sections, MDL-37702? - sam marshall

Attendees

Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Davidson, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Damyon Wiese, Dan Poltawski, Dan Bennett, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy, Eric Merrill, Gareth J Barnard, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jenny Gray, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Justin Fillip, Juan Leyva, Kristy, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Mary Cooch, Michael de Raadt, Michael Blake, Mike Churcward, Russel Smith, Peter Bulmer, Petr Škoda, Prateek Sachan, Ray Lawrence, Rex Lorenzo, Ruslan Kablan, Rosie Wijaya, Sam Marshall, Shane Elliot, Tim Hunt, Yair Spielmann, Yuliya Bozhko.

Meeting chat log

Adrian Greeve	Good evening everyone.	8:54:02 PM
Michael de Raadt	Hi.	8:54:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Just starting the room	8:56:49 PM
Jason Fowler	Greetings all	8:57:44 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Streaming video will be	8:59:54 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Hello all	9:00:24 PM
Jason Fowler	Hi Gareth	9:00:32 PM
Ankit Agarwal	Hello	9:01:38 PM
Damyon Wiese	Hi All	9:02:35 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I'm inviting all those down on the agenda to speak	9:02:35 PM
Tim Hunt	Is the video link on the Moodledocs pagee yet?	9:02:36 PM
Tim Hunt	Sam just failed ot get in.	9:02:43 PM
Dan Poltawski	its up there^	9:02:48 PM
Martin Dougiamas		9:03:01 PM
Mike Churchward	You can also find it from here - http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlemeetings/videos	9:03:07 PM
Dan Poltawski	I'm just about to send a new beta release to github, please rebase	9:05:30 PM
Dan Poltawski	s/github/git mirrors	9:05:40 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Starting the broadcast now	9:05:46 PM
Martin Dougiamas	seeing it yet?	9:06:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	no	9:06:21 PM
danbennett	Nope	9:06:24 PM
Davo Smith	yes	9:06:27 PM
Mary Cooch	no	9:06:27 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Yes	9:06:29 PM
Mary Cooch	always takes time	9:06:30 PM
Jenny Gray	yes	9:06:30 PM
Eric Merrill	just came up for me	9:06:37 PM
Mary Cooch	yes	9:06:40 PM
danbennett	yes *waves*	9:06:43 PM
Justin Filip	Just started here	9:06:46 PM
Jason Fowler	I can't get in to the hang out	9:06:47 PM
Dan Poltawski	yes	9:06:52 PM
Jason Fowler	keep getting a fatal error when trying to install the plugin	9:07:05 PM
Damyon Wiese	yes	9:07:08 PM
Andrew Davis	apparently no more can get into the hangout. just watch on youtube	9:07:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Jason you should be added	9:07:23 PM
Jason Fowler	Andrew, I am supposed to be presenting	9:07:24 PM
David Monllaó	somebody can hear me?	9:07:31 PM
Andrew Davis	well that could be an issue then	9:07:34 PM
Aparup Banerjee	yes David M but soft	9:07:41 PM
Jason Fowler	yeah, it will be	9:07:55 PM
Dan Poltawski	whos got their audio on, can hear an echo	9:08:03 PM
Andrew Davis	there is echo. can those not speaking please mute your microphone	9:08:16 PM
Justin Filip	David is really quiet	9:08:41 PM
David Mudrák	as usually	9:08:47 PM
Justin Filip	Hi, Tim! =)	9:09:35 PM
Michael de Raadt	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_October_2013#Agenda	9:10:11 PM
David Monllaó	jfilip: lol, sorry I'm not specially physically comfortable here	9:12:54 PM
Mark Nelson	Atto as well ..	9:13:34 PM
Justin Filip	David, no worries. I can crank my volume when you're talking if need be. ;)	9:14:10 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Atto will be going up onto Plugins directory.	9:14:10 PM
Mark Nelson	Yep, but it won't be in core so it won't be getting the same priority.	9:15:05 PM
Dan Poltawski	comment.	9:17:06 PM
Aparup Banerjee	think Tim wants to talk	9:17:18 PM
Davo Smith	hi helen	9:17:23 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Yes	9:17:38 PM
Damyon Wiese	yep	9:18:09 PM
Martin Dougiamas	sorry it seems the lag is even bigger than usual, approx 1 min for some	9:18:40 PM
Dan Poltawski	qa_test_required	9:19:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels	9:19:18 PM
Eric Merrill	Have user docs been split yet?	9:20:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	yes, eric	9:20:25 PM
Mary Cooch	yes Eric	9:20:27 PM
Eric Merrill	thanks	9:20:30 PM
David Mudrák	yes! for beer	9:20:56 PM
Andrew Davis	Are the QA tests being trimmed down as they are replaced by behat?	9:21:06 PM
Tim Hunt	Yes adnrew	9:21:14 PM
Andrew Davis	huzzah	9:21:22 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Yes (not in this iteration though)	9:21:25 PM
Davo Smith	very quiet?	9:21:52 PM
Tim Hunt	Please can I go next, so I can then escape to my othre meeting. Sorry.	9:21:55 PM
Dan Poltawski	David is mentioning acceptance_test_required	9:22:00 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Yes, very quiet	9:22:00 PM
Dan Poltawski	^ also in the tracker labels docs https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels	9:22:09 PM
David Monllaó	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Contributing_automated_tests	9:22:33 PM
Mike Churchward	Its very hard to hear	9:23:02 PM
Gareth J Barnard	I missed Dan's iMoot presentation on Behat in Moodle - waiting for the replay on YouTube - beyond https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Behat_integration what is the best way to learn how to create automated tests please?	9:25:08 PM
Justin Filip	Look at examples of other tests in Moodle already?	9:25:35 PM
Dan Poltawski	Gareth J Barnard: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing	9:25:50 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Anyone here working opn questions?	9:26:09 PM
Justin Filip	Or, what Dan said. =)	9:26:27 PM
Marina Glancy	https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000	9:26:37 PM
Andrew Nicols	Andrew Nicols appears a touch late	9:26:51 PM
Davo Smith	Is it just question behaviours or types as well?	9:26:57 PM
sam marshall	Not working on questions.	9:27:11 PM
sam marshall	davo - I think it's just behaviours	9:27:15 PM
Davo Smith	ok - that's a relief	9:27:24 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@jfilip But they are the output. Thanks Dan - any good screen casts you would recommend too?	9:27:26 PM
Andrew Nicols	Marina has dyed her hair (again)?	9:27:58 PM
Jason Fowler	Off topic a bit there Andrew :P	9:28:18 PM
Andrew Nicols	heh	9:28:23 PM
Andrew Nicols	Sorry, I got stuck in traffic and all sorts	9:28:43 PM
Dan Poltawski	Gareth: I don't think so (I don't think it'd help, to be honest). I showed it for about 2 mins at that imoot talk	9:28:57 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@Dan - thanks - I'll read through the links posted.	9:29:33 PM
Jason Fowler	heh, I got stuck with Windows not allowing me to uninstall the Google Talk plugin in order to install the Google Hangouts plugin ...	9:29:38 PM
Justin Filip	Gareth, I was referring to the existing code in Moodle that runs the tests within Moodle.	9:30:18 PM
Dan Poltawski	(its 'cool' to see the browser doing its thing magically, but it doesn't help so much with getting it setup )	9:30:20 PM
Eloy Lafuente	bloody iGadgets. No way yo connect to the stream in a reliable way. I've tried hangouts, google+, youtube and ios safari. Uninstalling all the google ones right now.	9:30:27 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Eloy it's just a youtube video, should work nearly on anything	9:30:57 PM
Eloy Lafuente	tell it to my ipad, please.	9:31:08 PM
Eloy Lafuente	now I'm in the laptop.	9:31:21 PM
Martin Dougiamas	?	9:31:25 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@jfilip - no worries - just looking to understand how to install and create tests.	9:31:31 PM
Jason Fowler	heh, the laptop should play nicely	9:31:32 PM
Eloy Lafuente	yes, i'm there, listening to marina	9:31:33 PM
Eloy Lafuente	though it does not show the "live" red light.	9:32:10 PM
Jason Fowler	Shame Tim won't be here to respond to what I have to say, he was the one that requested the discussion	9:32:13 PM
Martin Dougiamas	i'm looking forward to better testing using really huge datasets	9:32:38 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Note it's good for UI testing as well as performance things	9:33:10 PM
sam marshall	'make large course' tool worth mentioning at this point?	9:33:12 PM
Dan Poltawski	yep	9:33:24 PM
Justin Filip	Once you get large data then you move onto the next problem: testing with multiple people hitting the same Moodle site at the same time with that large dataset in your DB.	9:33:54 PM
Martin Dougiamas	suspect she might be getting to it, Sam	9:34:17 PM
sam marshall	cool	9:34:23 PM
Dan Poltawski	heh, has anyone seen the comments on the youtube video	9:34:41 PM
Dan Poltawski	The Urban Ninja I love using moodle for school The Urban Ninja How long did it take to create moodle?	9:34:46 PM
sam marshall	btw, the generator stuff is pretty nice to use	9:34:52 PM
sam marshall	(imo)	9:34:57 PM
Adrian Greeve	A tad difficult to see the example.	9:35:00 PM
Rex Lorenzo	@jfilip: https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-performance-comparison	9:35:28 PM
sam marshall	adrian - make fullscreen and iut will switch to hd mode	9:35:50 PM
sam marshall	you can read code there	9:35:59 PM
David Mudrák	Dan P, please don't confuse the speaker with mentioning ninjas	9:36:00 PM
sam marshall	er if on youtube that is	9:36:15 PM
Justin Filip	Rex, interesting, thanks.	9:36:17 PM
Adrian Greeve	Not on my connection it won't. I already have it full screen.	9:36:31 PM
Dan Poltawski	yeah, maybe we need a differnet back channel which isn't for the speaker to read	9:36:31 PM
Adrian Greeve	I'll have to rewatch it.	9:36:44 PM
Andrew Nicols	So we can talk about the speaker behind their back?	9:36:51 PM
Dan Poltawski	Adrian - the link to the presentation is up there^	9:36:59 PM
sam marshall	adrian - ah sorry, did on mine (took 10 seconds to update)	9:36:59 PM
David Monllaó	I will be talking about that tool	9:37:16 PM
Dan Poltawski	https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000	9:37:30 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Why would events not trigger during data generation?	9:38:13 PM
Dan Poltawski	they don't all use the api functions	9:38:25 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Ah...	9:38:49 PM
Eloy Lafuente	yay, finally got it in the ipad via google+	9:38:54 PM
David Monllaó	IIRC Marina is working on using the API	9:39:21 PM
Dan Poltawski	(I mean you've got to remember they started from making the bare basics for unit testing)	9:39:50 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Or trigger the necessary events that would be called if you used the API?	9:39:59 PM
Justin Filip	It's probably a good idea to have the option of using the Moodle API. 1) I want it fast, I don't care about events. 2) I want a "true" simulation, use the API and trigger events, I don't care how long it takes.	9:40:14 PM
David Mudrák	thanks marina	9:41:01 PM
Jason Fowler	jason likes the Portal turret on the shelf ... "Are you still there?"	9:41:22 PM
David Monllaó	ok for everybody?	9:42:02 PM
Davo Smith	better	9:42:29 PM
Adrian Greeve	Yrs, much better.	9:42:55 PM
Jason Fowler	doing this outside on the patio to avoid waking up my daughter was a crazy idea	9:44:22 PM
Andrew Nicols	cold?	9:44:31 PM
Andrew Nicols	I'm back in the office	9:44:57 PM
Jason Fowler	a little	9:45:05 PM
Jason Fowler	made worse by the fact the garden sprinklers have been on	9:45:27 PM
Rossiani Wijaya	lots of bugs?	9:45:48 PM
Jason Fowler	screen is covered in midgies	9:46:17 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(mute your mike if not speaking)	9:46:18 PM
Martin Dougiamas	and lol	9:46:45 PM
Dan Poltawski	(waiting to hear this..)	9:47:03 PM
Martin Dougiamas	David's script makes this all reasonably simple once it's set up	9:47:58 PM
Martin Dougiamas	you'll be wanting to performance test after every line of code :P	9:48:15 PM
Justin Filip	This is great. It all works?	9:48:37 PM
Dan Poltawski	tsh!	9:48:51 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yep	9:48:52 PM
Dan Poltawski	it'd be great having more people looking at it, not many people have tried it out yet (myself included)	9:49:21 PM
Eric Merrill	I've used it a bit. Although it was a bit confusing to setup the first time. Needs a bit of docs work.	9:49:29 PM
Justin Filip	I will definitely give it a try.	9:49:36 PM
Mary Cooch	sounds in the background?	9:50:24 PM
Justin Filip	Eric, It can't be any more awkward to setup than the Behat tests, can it?	9:50:25 PM
Michael de Raadt	(David's housemates.)	9:50:36 PM
Mary Cooch	ah ok	9:50:41 PM
Aparup Banerjee	ah	9:50:43 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Martin Dougiamas waits for him to shout STFU	9:50:55 PM
Eric Merrill	jfilip: I've actually found that behat has become pretty easy (used to be much harder)	9:50:57 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Yeah, the results page is very interesting. We are using it to test different muc cache settings and server side configs. Anyone have igbinary turned on for their prod setups?	9:51:01 PM
sam marshall	I'm really glad Moodle HQ are doing this stuff. One issue, large systems like us have setups where the web server is on different physical hardware (requiring network round trips) from database, filesystem, and memcache if included. There were things which made Moodle 2.4 slower on that type of system, it has different perf characteristics. Any plans to do regular tests on a system with web server on different physical hardware from the filesystem (NFS) etc?.	9:51:10 PM
sam marshall	obv we could do that with this code I assume...	9:51:30 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Definitely Sam. We'll be testing on a cluster similar to the one we built for moodle.org	9:51:42 PM
sam marshall	awesome, thanks	9:51:57 PM
Andrew Nicols	rexlorenzo@gmail.com: what effect did igbinary have for you?	9:52:46 PM
Martin Dougiamas	uses glusterFS and galera for db	9:52:47 PM
Eric Merrill	I did notice when running my tests that my results were… jumpy. Quite a bit of fluctuation from run to run. I need to fiddle more to see if it was something I was doing or not, but I would probably not run just one test and assume it's reprsentative	9:53:08 PM
Rex Lorenzo	igbinary cuts session site in half. But not using it in prod yet, still testing	9:53:20 PM
Rex Lorenzo	*size	9:53:24 PM
Andrew Nicols	And perf though?	9:53:32 PM
Dan Poltawski	Eric: david has been trying different variations and mentioned the number earlier where getting consistent results	9:53:53 PM
Martin Dougiamas	for sure, eric, wait to you see the graphs david has made at the end	9:53:55 PM
Eric Merrill	Thanks - I'm having a hard time understanding him :/	9:54:28 PM
Martin Dougiamas	David, do you have those graphs?	9:55:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	don't bother with solaris	9:55:55 PM
Jason Fowler	if you work with Solaris, Moodle performance is likely to be the least of your issues :P	9:55:57 PM
Dan Poltawski	heh	9:56:41 PM
Andrew Nicols	I was speaking to someone at a large British University running Solaris for Eevverrything	9:56:42 PM
Eloy Lafuente	with oracle surely, lol	9:56:56 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I spent most of the 90's on Solaris workstations	9:56:58 PM
Dan Poltawski	Andrew used to be the resident solaris expert in our last job	9:57:18 PM
Dan Poltawski	he will be happy to work on it again	9:57:25 PM
Andrew Nicols	muahhahahah.. I made them all feel like they were running Debian	9:57:32 PM
Eloy Lafuente	sure, once you abandone it, never return, lol.	9:57:42 PM
Andrew Nicols	I'm actually on the OpenCSW packaging team still ;\	9:57:43 PM
Andrew Nicols	I really should quite	9:57:47 PM
Andrew Nicols	quit*	9:57:51 PM
Andrew Nicols	(the opencsw team)	9:57:55 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Used Solaris in the 90's too when compiling C++ took 40 mins on a relatively medium project.	9:58:23 PM
Martin Dougiamas	I think this tool could really develop into a nice analysis tool	9:58:24 PM
Martin Dougiamas	it compares any number of runs with each other	9:58:38 PM
Eric Merrill	Yeah. I really liked it. I think the thing I would like is if you can average a number of runs, and compare that against another average of runs	9:59:27 PM
Eric Merrill	If that makes sense	9:59:35 PM
Eric Merrill	But overall I liked it a lot	9:59:56 PM
Eloy Lafuente	I think I've an OUTDATED version available @ http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/	10:00:24 PM
Dan Poltawski	(David are you showing us a screen that is off screen?)	10:00:29 PM
Eloy Lafuente	(remark: OUTDATED, 2-3 wekks old)	10:00:36 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Very Cool :D	10:01:05 PM
Dan Poltawski	(show people pretty graphs - the solution to everything in life)	10:01:24 PM
Martin Dougiamas	well it works when people are starting to talk about solaris	10:01:44 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@DanP will that work with the camelCase discussion? ;)	10:02:08 PM
Andrew Nicols	Andrew Nicols suspects that the camelCase discussion will soon cease	10:02:36 PM
sam marshall	btw, this looks pretty awesome	10:02:39 PM
Dan Poltawski	David doesn't understand my english either	10:03:04 PM
Eric Merrill	Indeed. Big thumbs up!	10:03:11 PM
Justin Filip	Very cool!	10:03:15 PM
David Monllaó	Eric, about the fluctuations try with "S" size, 30 users and 5 loops (by default) results should be stable	10:04:04 PM
Eloy Lafuente	still the forum post redirect with all zeros, eh	10:04:21 PM
Andrew Nicols	Huh Eloy?	10:04:33 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah there is a bug there with redirects still	10:04:42 PM
Dan Poltawski	BTW david - you should post on the hardware and perfmance forum	10:04:43 PM
Dan Poltawski	(don't think you've posted about it yet?)	10:04:49 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMonllao: Thanks. I'll play with it a bit more	10:05:02 PM
Eloy Lafuente	nah we have an ongoing issue to capture info from redirects (internal problem)	10:05:06 PM
Martin Dougiamas	finally new calendar types!	10:05:25 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMonllao: It's mostly server load and time taken that fluctuate (but are also the numbers I care most about :D )	10:05:31 PM
Eloy Lafuente	yeah, environment must be STABLE for them to have any sense.	10:05:49 PM
Jason Fowler	DavidMonllao: can you please mute your mic?	10:06:02 PM
Eloy Lafuente	i got it perfectly. best everybody!	10:06:21 PM
Eric Merrill	For those who use load balancers, I have two new cache stores waiting for approval that greatly speed sites	10:06:35 PM
Eric Merrill	memcache(d)cluster	10:06:40 PM
Martin Dougiamas	w00t!	10:06:48 PM
Eloy Lafuente	you did it!	10:06:54 PM
Mark Nelson	Calendar types - Gregorian comes with core	10:06:55 PM
Mark Nelson	(obviously)	10:07:11 PM
David Monllaó	if you are running the tests in a dev. client computer is normal	10:07:11 PM
Martin Dougiamas	that broken image is worrying :P	10:08:20 PM
Dan Poltawski	there is a MDLSITE	10:08:30 PM
David Mudrák	blame the cluster	10:08:35 PM
David Monllaó	an isolated server will return stable resutls, at least it should, we are backing up database and dataroot at the beginning and restoring it after the first test plan run	10:08:44 PM
Martin Dougiamas	ffs	10:08:45 PM
Dan Poltawski	yep	10:09:38 PM
David Mudrák	no	10:09:40 PM
Rossiani Wijaya	yes apu	10:09:59 PM
Eric Merrill	Aparup: I heard there were plans for auto-release on git branch update. Is that still in the work (or there and I didn't know it)?	10:10:00 PM
Martin Dougiamas	wow that's like a 2 min lag	10:10:09 PM
Gareth J Barnard	If a user uses the automated installer for a plugin can they choose then to subscribe to comments? As might be helpful.	10:10:30 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(If Google doesn't add a better built-in chat to Hangouts on Air I think I would like to try a better tool for this meeting next time … )	10:12:14 PM
David Mudrák	Eric Merrill, we are a bit worried about it	10:12:37 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMudrak: Or even a 'click here to fetch your new version from github', even if it wasnt completely automated	10:13:14 PM
sam marshall	I never update my plugins, too lazy/busy ;( Have automation to update github for all of them when i run a script, but not the moodle bit	10:13:22 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Really like the Github code searching	10:13:27 PM
David Mudrák	Eric, that is already supported	10:13:30 PM
David Mudrák	we have Github repository	10:13:36 PM
David Mudrák	so you can pick the ZIP directly via it	10:13:49 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMudrak: Oh - Ill have to try that out	10:13:55 PM
David Mudrák	Yes, it's really cool	10:14:05 PM
David Mudrák	(credit goes to Dan P)	10:14:12 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMudrak: Thanks. It's hard keeping up with everything!	10:14:24 PM
David Mudrák	nah, tell me about that	10:14:37 PM
Rex Lorenzo	Where is the code search on the plugin page? Is that only for selected users?	10:14:40 PM
Mark Nelson	It would definitely be nice to have it automated, especially when you are doing a minor change which you then have to apply to multiple branches	10:14:47 PM
Dan Poltawski	I think pushing a tag would make sense	10:15:01 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah I agree.	10:15:06 PM
Eric Merrill	yeah	10:15:08 PM
Dan Poltawski	I think that a tag is enough of a thing to say 'ive thought about it'	10:15:35 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Git is so fast … shouldn't be hard to poll every hour or so	10:15:39 PM
David Mudrák	It depends on people being pretty disciplined in using Git	10:15:44 PM
Martin Dougiamas	we could use special Moodle plugins tags for this	10:16:04 PM
Dan Poltawski	DavidMudrak: you could even call it moodle.org-plugins-v1.1 or something crazy	10:16:13 PM
sam marshall	yes tag would be awesome	10:16:13 PM
Martin Dougiamas	plugin_release_trigger_5 or something	10:16:24 PM
Jason Fowler	release_version_20131022 ?	10:16:35 PM
Jason Fowler	and only rebuild the zip on incremented version numbers?	10:16:54 PM
Andrew Nicols	release_26_20131022?	10:17:14 PM
Jason Fowler	that makes more sense Andrew	10:17:25 PM
Justin Filip	Most of the 3rd party plugins that we track at RL don't use tags at all in their Git repositories for their plugins.	10:17:48 PM
David Mudrák	David Mudrak is still sceptic about it. I just saw too much of creativity of our good contributors	10:17:55 PM
sam marshall	don't like numbers personally, dates are good since alkready in version.php etc.	10:18:00 PM
Dan Poltawski	I suggest a tag because people don't routinely tag	10:18:13 PM
Dan Poltawski	but, it fits perfectly with the use case, and is in the git tool	10:18:27 PM
Eric Merrill	Yeah, it makes it explicit that you want to auto-release a version	10:18:39 PM
Dan Poltawski	and distinct from just commiting	10:18:47 PM
Justin Filip	I think tags are a good idea for something like that, or something within a comment that is parsed.	10:18:55 PM
Eric Merrill	What's the current backlog on plugins awaiting approval?	10:19:14 PM
Justin Filip	like "CONTRIB-XXX [commit_msg] #release_20131022"	10:19:20 PM
Justin Filip	But at that point, you might as well be using a tag anyway. =)	10:19:42 PM
David Mudrák	Eric Merrill, Waiting for approval plugins (19)	10:20:05 PM
Eric Merrill	DavidMudrak: Thanks	10:21:08 PM
Gareth J Barnard	I use tags for all my releases, perhaps if it's so important then a 'tag' link should be manditory?	10:21:45 PM
David Mudrák	Let's encourage people to tag releases, let's make the "new release by the tag" easier but please, let us not force anything. There are people using their ways, SCMs, worflows etc	10:22:46 PM
Dan Poltawski	1	10:23:00 PM
Eloy Lafuente	(agree)	10:23:07 PM
Mike Churchward	Yep… Encourage strongly...	10:23:15 PM
Dan Poltawski	(of course its already mandatory to upload from the webpage :P)	10:23:15 PM
Eloy Lafuente	i use .doc files to keep my history here.	10:23:23 PM
Justin Filip	Yeah, if someone isn't using tags in their repository but is still putting up a "release" on plugins DB, that still worsk for me.	10:23:25 PM
Eric Merrill	I would think you would need to set it up in your plugin settings (repo, branchs, enable tags, etc), completely optional	10:23:26 PM
sam marshall	not forcing = fine, but can we have automated never-look-at-moodle-website updates at least as an option	10:23:46 PM
David Mudrák	sam marshall, we can expose it via web services and let the community write tools for it	10:24:12 PM
sam marshall	btw I think we can delete my items from agenda, since i'm not in hangout and they're notr that important and long meeting is long	10:24:54 PM
Dan Poltawski	pff, we need the community to test moodle via uploading on the site :P	10:24:54 PM
Justin Filip	The problem would be if someone just dumps something in the tip of a branch in Git that is in-progress code and someone updates their site with that code which isn't even finished and potentially breaks that plugin or core Moodle functionality due to inadvertently pulling in unstable code.	10:24:57 PM
Rex Lorenzo	What about a star rating?	10:25:08 PM
Martin Dougiamas	pftt stars	10:25:18 PM
Helen Foster	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Plugin_reviews	10:25:24 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Mind you I only tag with a version number, I've never considered adding a requires Moodle version date. Would help with the questions and the 'requires' using the '$plugin->requires' does not have a one to one mapping with '$release' in core 'version.php'.	10:25:25 PM
Dan Poltawski	Yes, its important to remember how pushing a branch now could have an impact	10:25:29 PM
sam marshall	by automated I meant, eg via tag. web service if it doesn't suck	10:25:34 PM
sam marshall	not any old push	10:25:50 PM
Dan Poltawski	(immediately deployed to all moodle sites, etc)	10:25:53 PM
danbennett	If partners have done a review of a plugin, maybe share to that from the plugins page itself? Just a thought	10:26:01 PM
Justin Filip	Gareth, for our plugins we bake the Moodle version into the plugin version number, e.g. 2.4.x.y, 2.5.x.y, 2.6.x.y so the version number tells you which version of Moodle that release runs on.	10:26:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Does anyone follow stuff on their own plugins via rss feeds?	10:26:35 PM
Dan Poltawski	yes.	10:26:40 PM
David Mudrák	no.	10:26:54 PM
Eric Merrill	I haven't, but ive been adding them yo my reader now	10:27:00 PM
Dan Poltawski	(Btw, you guys should see how painful it is to upload an update to Apple with billions of dollars to make their developer portal)	10:27:03 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@jfilip - I do that already - but still get issues with very minor releases where the API changes.	10:27:12 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah	10:27:16 PM
sam marshall	we really encourage people to use github issues if they want to report anything, although i do sometimes reply to comments	10:27:34 PM
sam marshall	dan - if moodle can't have more open practices than Apple...	10:27:54 PM
Michael de Raadt	Is there any intention to use data captured during update checking and reporting that back to potential downloaders?	10:27:57 PM
Justin Filip	Is using the CONTRIB project on the Moodle Tracker still recommended?	10:28:02 PM
Justin Filip	(For contrib addons . . . )	10:28:20 PM
Dan Poltawski	Sam: i'm not talking about open, i'm talking about tool usability	10:28:26 PM
David Mudrák	jfilip, it really depends imho	10:28:28 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@Sam They can use GitHub issues and Tracker, and I use the latter more.	10:28:30 PM
Mark Nelson	Yeh, depends on what the developer prefers	10:28:41 PM
sam marshall	dan - integrating with git to automatically update, rather than going via a complex form process, would be more open	10:28:43 PM
David Mudrák	David Mudrak personally switched to Github tracker for his addons	10:28:44 PM
Jason Fowler	Subplugins - AKA plugin-plugins :P	10:28:52 PM
danbennett	Didn't know hotpot was so widely downloaded o-O	10:29:20 PM
Jason Fowler	bloody hell, it's almost summer, why is it so cold!!!	10:29:31 PM
Martin Dougiamas	global warming	10:29:41 PM
Michael de Raadt	danbennett: Hotpot is really widely used.	10:29:50 PM
Aparup Banerjee	well thats why i want to work in more breakdowns into the statistics page	10:29:57 PM
Jason Fowler	o.O global cooling?	10:30:00 PM
Mark Nelson	I hear the progress report plugin is pretty awesome	10:30:06 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Global weather chaos	10:30:22 PM
Jason Fowler	the certificate plugin is pretty decent too	10:30:23 PM
Mark Nelson	Lol, no it's not	10:30:30 PM
danbennett	Michael d: Just didnt realise how much compared to certificate. heh	10:30:33 PM
Jason Fowler	just avoid the pushover one for 2.6 - it's not ready yet	10:30:40 PM
Justin Filip	Yay, for plugins love! =)	10:30:46 PM
Martin Dougiamas		10:30:55 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Still needs a lot more IMO	10:31:06 PM
Martin Dougiamas	(sorry i was referring to db, not the new subplugins fixes)	10:31:50 PM
David Mudrák	Petr Å koda, what plugin types support subplugins now?	10:32:18 PM
Petr Škoda	https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Subplugins	10:32:24 PM
David Mudrák	thanks	10:32:47 PM
Martin Dougiamas	When will we have recursive sub-plugins?	10:33:24 PM
Jason Fowler	lol	10:33:36 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yay perf increase	10:33:54 PM
David Mudrák	Yeah, I was facing the limited length of tables in workshopallocation_* plugins, too	10:34:27 PM
David Mudrák	*table names	10:34:34 PM
Damyon Wiese	contenteditable_* is a bad sub plugin name - atto_* is much better	10:34:38 PM
David Mudrák	Aparup, that reminds me - we should have a way to "book" the plugin name you are working on somehow	10:35:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	related.. MDL-41310	10:35:08 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41310 - Should we drop our support for Oracle databases?.V: 1, W: 15, Type: Bug, Assignee: Michael de Raadt, Priority: Minor, Status: Open	10:35:09 PM
Martin Dougiamas	fgtr	10:35:09 PM
Gareth J Barnard	A little discussion on the theme's forum about having 'sub-theme-plugins' so a way that you could create a display component like a 'slider' and then that be included in your theme without the developer adding it. Like 'theme components'.	10:35:22 PM
Aparup Banerjee	there was a problem the plugins DB too, but it was resolved by taking a part of the name - iirc 28 chars?	10:35:35 PM
David Mudrák	Everybody wants subplugins.	10:35:38 PM
Eloy Lafuente	is 2.6 beta out there already ?	10:35:46 PM
Eloy Lafuente	in the plugins db	10:35:52 PM
Martin Dougiamas	y	10:35:59 PM
David Mudrák	David Mudrak will rename to just "shop"	10:36:01 PM
Aparup Banerjee	well you can always book by first uploading - it can remain unapproved and you can reschedule for approval when ready again	10:36:09 PM
Aparup Banerjee	yes Eloy	10:36:18 PM
Dan Poltawski	doh	10:36:22 PM
David Mudrák	Aparup, ah	10:36:23 PM
Martin Dougiamas	oh no domain name squatting all over again	10:36:28 PM
Eloy Lafuente	Eloy Lafuente updates his plugins	10:36:30 PM
Dan Poltawski	shouldn't have mentioned oracle	10:36:31 PM
David Mudrák	Aparup, does it mean that unapproved plugins block the name forever?	10:36:46 PM
David Mudrák	Petr Å koda, when will we support subplugins for all types?	10:37:07 PM
Aparup Banerjee	this ofcourse still goes through human eyes - squatters - and unaproved plugins , will be cleaned/ping every now and then	10:37:28 PM
Gareth J Barnard	Thanks Petr for working on MDL-42110 - is it critical enough to be back ported despite a possible issue. I'm getting a lot of people experiencing this issue.	10:38:28 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42110 - Installing add-ons causes 500 internal server error..V: 0, W: 5, Type: Bug, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Critical, Status: Waiting for integration review	10:38:29 PM
Jason Fowler	jason should have put on warmer socks	10:40:10 PM
Martin Dougiamas	The new sessions should really help clusters in particular	10:41:24 PM
Martin Dougiamas		10:41:29 PM
Eric Merrill	Yeah, I'm excited to deploy 2.6 in a few months	10:42:04 PM
Dan Poltawski	David found a good improvement from it I think	10:42:13 PM
Dan Poltawski	DavidMonllao: ?	10:42:27 PM
Martin Dougiamas	graphs to come on release notes	10:43:03 PM
sam marshall	db tables prob?	10:43:17 PM
Rex Lorenzo	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40979	10:43:22 PM
Eloy Lafuente	Everytime Petr looks to the camera my Google+ stops streaming.	10:43:25 PM
sam marshall	(also in the 'stuff that can be cached locally' list, I meant)	10:43:27 PM
Eloy Lafuente	(or perhaps it's everytime he says "oracle")	10:43:36 PM
Aparup Banerjee	lol	10:43:37 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Google runs on Oracle obvously	10:43:47 PM
Dan Poltawski	Eloy: you might want to read his comment in the relesae notes	10:44:03 PM
Michael de Raadt	NSA trigger word.	10:44:05 PM
Jason Fowler	-https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - Documentation https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457 - Discussion https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40685 - Meta of issues completed - Stage 1 https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40664 - Meta of issues remaining - Stage 2	10:44:49 PM
Gareth J Barnard	@Michael d - Would that word be a mountain in north Wales?	10:45:04 PM
Eric Merrill	For anybody interested in cluster stuff, I would look at (and comment on) MDL-42071	10:45:18 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42071 - Support for split memcache/memcached stores.V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Eric Merrill, Priority: Minor, Status: Development in progress	10:45:18 PM
Eloy Lafuente	(I don't disagree with the release notes about oracle, btw)	10:45:28 PM
David Mudrák	It all sounds good. Too good actually. Suspecious.	10:45:36 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Well of course you would, Eric, it's assigned to you	10:45:47 PM
Eric Merrill	:D	10:45:52 PM
Gareth J Barnard	I have to go, thank you all	10:46:17 PM
Eloy Lafuente	ciao, Gareth, ty!	10:46:31 PM
Petr Škoda	split cache is possible - how does it deal with cache coherence? Does it update all servers on write/delete and read from local?	10:46:33 PM
Michael de Raadt		10:46:40 PM
Eric Merrill	Yes	10:46:40 PM
Eloy Lafuente	write many /read 1	10:46:43 PM
Petr Škoda	yay, sounds very good	10:46:50 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Hi Prateek	10:47:38 PM
sam marshall	Tim had some concern about adding duplicate headings, which is bad for everyone (especially screenreader users)	10:48:56 PM
Amy Groshek		10:48:57 PM
sam marshall	Like the general html guidelines look good but there were some changes that appeared to add duplicate headings for page names and stuff	10:49:23 PM
Prateek Sachan	Hi Aparup	10:49:33 PM
Amy Groshek	Sam, is there a link to Tim's concerns?	10:49:35 PM
Damyon Wiese	Tims raised that about e.g. LTI where there is an activity name and then the LTI might have it's own heading	10:49:38 PM
Dan Poltawski	we were looking at them	10:49:39 PM
Damyon Wiese	which is a valid concern	10:49:46 PM
sam marshall	probably but I don't know where Just doing this from memory	10:49:54 PM
David Mudrák	sam for mod_page	10:49:58 PM
Amy Groshek	I saw Tim's comment where it referred to SCORM	10:49:58 PM
sam marshall	he didn't tell me to deputise for him or anything, sorry	10:50:04 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Agreed that duplicate *headings" are bad	10:50:11 PM
Helen Foster	Tim's concerns: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457	10:50:12 PM
Damyon Wiese	yep scorm and LTI are the same situation	10:50:17 PM
Martin Dougiamas	those two have "headings" inside the content areas, they are exceptions	10:50:39 PM
Amy Groshek	It seemed like just a small change in presentation, something users could get used to and which we could hide with css if we really didn't want to change presentation for learners.	10:50:40 PM
Damyon Wiese	so they need to be handled specially	10:50:43 PM
Martin Dougiamas	.	10:50:54 PM
Petr Škoda	double yay for somebody working on book!	10:51:02 PM
Martin Dougiamas	There is still some duplication with navbar/headings, but I think that's very debatable as a good/bad thing	10:51:27 PM
Helen Foster	book will be really good as shown in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - on the learnmoodle site it didn't look good at all with the book name missing	10:51:39 PM
Justin Filip	Book is pretty terrible right now with a screen reader.	10:51:45 PM
Dan Poltawski	Is there a 'screenreader solution' for those duplicate headings	10:52:06 PM
Amy Groshek	I support changing headings for the sake of consistency. Theme developers might have a few minutes of work to do to adjust if maintaining existing look is imperative, but consistency is so important.	10:52:22 PM
Dan Poltawski	where we could hide one (sounds horrible.. but if you look at the actual page)	10:52:23 PM
Damyon Wiese	Why does it need special handling for screen readers?	10:52:36 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Amy	10:52:39 PM
David Mudrák	Jason, I hope it's still the theme having the full control over it, right?	10:52:45 PM
Dan Poltawski	damyonw: when we've got the same text repeated twice	10:52:57 PM
Damyon Wiese	It's the same issue for sighted users - so IMO we need to fix it for everyone	10:53:17 PM
sam marshall	the problem for screenreaders is if they get things twice, it's annoying	10:53:21 PM
Dan Poltawski	yes, its worse for screen readers though	10:53:30 PM
sam marshall	worse than just seeing it twice	10:53:33 PM
Damyon Wiese	(Im talking about the scorm/LTI headings)	10:53:41 PM
Dan Poltawski	yeah, thats what Iw as trying to get at	10:53:43 PM
Dan Poltawski	whats the link to the forum page	10:53:50 PM
Dan Poltawski	let me find it	10:53:52 PM
Dan Poltawski	http://qa.moodle.net/mod/forum/view.php?id=1	10:54:13 PM
Amy Groshek	If we don't make heading hierarchy consistent, we screw with theming on *every page*. This is a per-module issue.	10:54:16 PM
Aparup Banerjee	Petr Å koda: more book related work - https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=mod_klassenbuch	10:54:42 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Policies: https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MDL%20AND%20component%20%3D%20Policy%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Closed%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC	10:54:42 PM
sam marshall	No problem with consistent, but maybe it should consistently not duplicate headers, instead of consistently duplicating them	10:54:50 PM
Jason Fowler	Amy can you mention that on the forum discussion I linked to?	10:55:16 PM
Petr Škoda	no JS fallback rule falls - mega party	10:55:36 PM
Jason Fowler	https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457#p1056543	10:55:38 PM
Mary Cooch	(lag) links get posted here and then I hear people saying they are about to post a link	10:55:45 PM
Amy Groshek	@Jason, yes, I saw that come through and haven't come back to it yet. Will do.	10:55:51 PM
Dan Poltawski	lol, thats a hell of a lag	10:55:56 PM
Andrew Nicols	Martin, we cant' see any links in the youtube feed?	10:55:57 PM
Jason Fowler	Thanks Amy	10:55:59 PM
Andrew Nicols	in fact, we're still stuck on Jason's screen Martin Dougiamas	10:56:20 PM
danbennett	MDL-41535	10:56:40 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41535 - POLICY: A non-javascript fallback is not required for new features provided that WCAG 2 AAA is met.V: 0, W: 14, Type: Bug, Assignee: Martin Dougiamas, Priority: Major, Status: Closed	10:56:40 PM
sam marshall	AA*A*, seriously? heh	10:56:49 PM
Martin Dougiamas	sam https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d?authuser=0&hl=en	10:56:58 PM
Moodle Bot	http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d - () Unknown.	10:56:58 PM
Dan Poltawski	(btw, off topic -thanks Jason for breaking the amy/jason avatar clash :P )	10:57:17 PM
Eric Merrill	This backup and restore stuff is awesome!	10:57:34 PM
Amy Groshek	Heh. Sorry, @jason, I just couldn't part with mine.	10:57:37 PM
Eric Merrill	Hopefully sam can talk about it	10:57:42 PM
sam marshall	I can talk about it in here if you like, don't think I can get into hangout	10:57:55 PM
Jason Fowler	lol, blame my wife for that - she told me my profile pic wasn't "professional" enough lol	10:57:55 PM
Andrew Nicols	yeah - that's about a 30 second lag here	10:58:01 PM
Jason Fowler	s/blame/thank/	10:58:08 PM
danbennett	over 1min here	10:58:08 PM
Dan Poltawski	can someone get out of the hangout for sam to join?	10:58:25 PM
Petr Škoda	congrats on the backup/restore issues!	10:58:38 PM
Jason Fowler	there are only 5 of the slots full Dan	10:58:44 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Anything else?	10:58:46 PM
sam marshall	All I wanted to say about the backup/restore was basically - there are a bunch of changes in 2.6 I did to show progress in backup/restore, this should basically work, nobody needs to do anything in plugins particularly (unless you've done something strange).	10:58:47 PM
Eric Merrill	And good progress reporting - works well on load balanced slots	10:58:49 PM
Jason Fowler	and look at that, finishing on time it seems	10:59:08 PM
Justin Filip	Yeah, lots of good stuff happening on backup & restore for 2.6.	10:59:12 PM
Aparup Banerjee	24/7 devchat!	10:59:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	kudos Sam and OU for putting all that work into backup	10:59:28 PM
Eloy Lafuente		10:59:34 PM
Amy Groshek	Were the proposed changes to JS coding standards covered?	10:59:39 PM
Dan Poltawski	I keep meaning to ask - why have you started using backup? :P	10:59:40 PM
Andrew Nicols	I've started discussing https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Javascript/Coding_style	10:59:42 PM
sam marshall	sure I was glad they finally let me do it	10:59:43 PM
Amy Groshek	Re: andrew?	10:59:51 PM
Andrew Nicols	But they're not finalised. If people have input there's a forum discussion at http://moodle.org/course/view.php?id=5	10:59:58 PM
Justin Filip	Backup issue -- https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38189	11:00:04 PM
Justin Filip	(meta)	11:00:12 PM
sam marshall	dan - we've always used backup backend (not for backup, for e.g. copying course to new presentations). Just the issues got harder to bear.	11:00:18 PM
Andrew Nicols	Major lag is present today	11:00:27 PM
Martin Dougiamas		11:00:29 PM
Martin Dougiamas	Ah sorry	11:00:33 PM
Amy Groshek		11:00:36 PM
Martin Dougiamas	yeah lag makes this not good	11:00:38 PM
Justin Filip	Thanks everyone, 2.6 is looking really good so far.	11:00:46 PM
Jason Fowler	Why Andrew - that link goes to the course page	11:00:50 PM
Dan Poltawski	seems normal lag to me	11:00:51 PM
Andrew Davis	Good night all	11:00:51 PM
Yair Spielmann	Thanks all	11:00:52 PM
danbennett	Roll on 2.6!	11:00:57 PM
Martin Dougiamas	cheers	11:00:59 PM
Damyon Wiese	thanks	11:00:59 PM
Jérôme Mouneyrac	Thanks	11:01:01 PM
Andrew Nicols	bah oops - srry Jason	11:01:02 PM
Dan Poltawski	Who is Yair?	11:01:07 PM
Andrew Nicols	https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242639	11:01:10 PM
Dan Poltawski	we should've had introductions	11:01:11 PM
sam marshall	btw, re backup, thanks to all the other developers (hq etc) who helped reviewing those zillions of issues	11:01:14 PM
Jason Fowler	and why are we using camelCase for the names of things in Javascript?	11:01:21 PM
Jason Fowler	that just seems silly	11:01:26 PM
David Mudrák	Jason: no it does not	11:01:37 PM
raylawrence	bye	11:01:38 PM
Jason Fowler	we bucked the trend for php, despite it being common in php ...	11:01:46 PM
Mark Nelson	Multiple calendar support was added - read abt it at MDL-18375, shouldn't affect anyone here if you don't use anything other than Gregorian.	11:01:50 PM
Moodle Bot	https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-18375 - Displaying and selecting dates throughout Moodle should allow the use of multiple calendars.V: 138, W: 48, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Closed	11:01:50 PM
Eloy Lafuente	I've upgraded my perf testing site with current version + a run comparison of 25 and master (note results are not fiable, coz i was doing different things in the laptop while they ran). Just to let you play. http://127.0.0.1/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862&timestamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08	11:01:53 PM
Mark Nelson	Night	11:02:03 PM
Jason Fowler	we should keep things consistent with out other guidlines - css and php	11:02:04 PM
Dan Poltawski	127.0.0.1	11:02:07 PM
David Mudrák	Jason, there is JS guideline draft	11:02:07 PM
Dan Poltawski	really eloy	11:02:09 PM
Eloy Lafuente	grrr	11:02:17 PM
Dan Poltawski	Eloy: n00b	11:02:19 PM
Jason Fowler	DavidMudrak: that's what I am discussing now	11:02:23 PM
Rossiani Wijaya	bye	11:02:27 PM
David Mudrák	the reasoning is to be consistent with YUI which makes perfect sense to me	11:02:28 PM
sam marshall	if you clicked that link, eloy just ownz0red your computer	11:02:38 PM
Petr Škoda	http://n00b/~stronk7 does not work either	11:02:45 PM
Jason Fowler	ah, I hadn't thought of that	11:02:46 PM
Andrew Nicols	Jason, that's part of the proposal and is discussed in both the forum thread, and the wiki	11:02:56 PM
Eloy Lafuente	idiots	11:03:03 PM
David Mudrák	really, YUI style next to MoodlePHP style lookes weird	11:03:08 PM
Jason Fowler	lol	11:03:09 PM
Eloy Lafuente	now i'm not going to paste the public one! lol	11:03:12 PM
Eloy Lafuente	http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862&timestamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08	11:03:20 PM
sam marshall	yay	11:03:33 PM
sam marshall	(link works)	11:03:36 PM
Jason Fowler	yeah, I would like to see us using camelCase throughout moodle, but I am just a HQ minion :P	11:03:40 PM
Eloy Lafuente	another one	11:03:40 PM
Eloy Lafuente	lol	11:03:41 PM
Justin Filip	? sitecommit: 129ceb5 on demand release 2.5beta+	11:03:57 PM
Jason Fowler	anyway, I am getting up for work in 6 hours	11:03:59 PM
Justin Filip	(From the "After" column)	11:04:03 PM
Jason Fowler	so good night all	11:04:08 PM
David Mudrák	good night	11:04:16 PM
Aparup Banerjee	oh yea sleep	11:04:22 PM
Ankit Agarwal	Night	11:04:26 PM
Aparup Banerjee	good night everyone	11:04:27 PM
Andrew Nicols	I'm essentailyl questioning that issue the best place to change from camelCase into moodle_case	11:04:27 PM
Andrew Nicols	So please: views, feedback, etc. camelCase is the most contentious part, but not the only	11:04:46 PM
Dan Poltawski	Note: camelcase in php is not under debate.	11:04:53 PM
Andrew Nicols	Indeed - just in JS	11:05:15 PM
sam marshall	heh I prefer camelCase as well, but really don't mind which one people decide on for JS guidelines. What version are these guidelines for, 2.6+?	11:05:22 PM
Dan Poltawski	(you guys do enough refactoring already ;P)	11:05:23 PM
sam marshall	or 2.7+?	11:05:32 PM
Andrew Nicols	sam marshall: Once they're enforced, all new JS I presume	11:05:42 PM
Andrew Nicols	We have a bit of a hodge-podge in existing JS in Moodle	11:05:50 PM
sam marshall	OK	11:06:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	(BTW I can't believe this is news to people, after posting in the gdf, this chat AND integration exposed )	11:06:34 PM
Andrew Nicols	and it's been tweeted	11:06:47 PM
Dan Poltawski	you should be following integration exposed, people	11:06:52 PM
Justin Filip	Dan: slam your fist on a table for emphasis!	11:07:07 PM
Dan Poltawski	*slam*	11:07:15 PM
Andrew Nicols	Andrew Nicols disappears. Please though, commetns and feedback on that issue	11:07:19 PM
Michael de Raadt	What? A loud sound just woke me...	11:07:41 PM
Michael de Raadt	I'm off to bed. Zzzzz. (wave)	11:07:55 PM
Dan Poltawski	jfilip: 2.5beta+ = me an idiot	11:08:32 PM
Justin Filip	Oh, yeah, I see that now in master. ;)	11:10:58 PM
Eloy Lafuente	cya!	11:11:06 PM
Dan Poltawski	http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=commit;h=34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c	11:12:19 PM
Moodle Bot	http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c - (Dan Poltawski) on demand release 2.6beta+ master.	11:12:19 PM
Eloy Lafuente	lol	11:12:43 PM
Justin Filip	Woo!	11:13:33 PM
Eloy Lafuente	I'm going to revert that, rewriting history. Does not follow the commit rules at all!	11:13:37 PM
Eloy Lafuente	(thanks dan)	11:13:46 PM
Dan Poltawski	just jealous of jfilip	11:14:33 PM
Justin Filip	Yeah, don't steal my thunder, Eloy! =)	11:14:49 PM
Eloy Lafuente	haha	11:14:58 PM
Dan Poltawski	(actually I assumed that eloy had messed up his site and he alerted me to the problem, so I suppose its equally shared)	11:16:23 PM
sam marshall	sam marshall subscribes to 'integration exposed'	11:21:50 PM
Dan Poltawski	note that Sam H has been doing lots of good work on automating the release process so such prizes are quite exclusive, perhaps never to be claimed again :D	11:24:04 PM
Justin Filip	jfilip makes note to propose the "Dan owes me a beer" badge for moodle.org	11:26:08 PM
Dan Poltawski	fine with me as long as I can award the badge 'Owes dan a beer'	11:26:54 PM
Eloy Lafuente	it would be great to have a "owed beers badges generator" uhm...	11:26:55 PM
Justin Filip	I think it only makes sense for it to be a two-way street, yeah.	11:27:16 PM
Dan Poltawski	Dan Poltawski makes a note to request multiple badges awarded to same person	11:27:19 PM
Dan Poltawski	of same type	11:27:34 PM
Eloy Lafuente	you can issue different labels each time	11:27:43 PM
Justin Filip	Badge multipliers.	11:27:44 PM
Eloy Lafuente		11:27:44 PM
Dan Poltawski	the best thing is that you can't revoke a badge once its been issued	11:28:18 PM
Eloy Lafuente	hehe	11:28:26 PM
Dan Poltawski	so every time I see Tim, I'm sorted for the night	11:28:34 PM
Justin Filip	"Congratulations, you have found a bug of +3 Dan owes you a beer."	11:28:51 PM
Dan Poltawski	https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=assignee%20%3D%20timhunt%20and%20text%20~beer%20and%20Integrator%20%3D%20poltawski	11:30:36 PM
Dan Poltawski	damnit, the beers are all from Eloy	11:31:23 PM
Eloy Lafuente	I would not take that literally, lol.	11:33:29 PM
}