MoodleDocs - User contributions [en]

Release process

2014-06-23T06:47:51Z

Xymoodle: /* Release day */

==Roles==

<div class="contentblock">
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! Role
! Person responsible
|-
| Lead Developer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1&course=5 Martin Dougiamas]
|-
| Integration Lead
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=3176&course=5 Eloy Lafuente]
|-
| Community Manager
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=24152&course=5 Helen Foster]
|-
| AMOS Maintainer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1601&course=5 David Mudrák]
|-
| Moodle Docs Maintainer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1601&course=5 David Mudrák]
|-
| Plugins Directory Maintainer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1146834&course=5 Aparup Banerjee]
|-
| Testing Maintainer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=122326&course=5 David Monllaó]
|-
| QA Master Site Maintainer
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=24152&course=5 Helen Foster]
|-
| Digital Marketing Specialist 
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1622371 X.Y. Ng]
|-
| System Administrator
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1532884&course=5 Matthew Spurrier]
|-
| Development Manager
| [https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=381842&course=5 Michael de Raadt]
|}
Roles updated 18 June 2013.

==7 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Full demo of new code and sign-off
| [[#lead|Lead Developer]]
|}

==6 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create the next "X.Y+1" (next dev) version in the Tracker (MDL and CONTRIB), so people can move delayed stuff to next major release if needed.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create a "Must fix for X.Y" version in the tracker.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Freeze stable development and post in the [http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=55 General developer forum] to inform everyone of the freeze. ([https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=225854 example])
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Check [http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=labels+%3D+qa_test_required qa_test_required-labelled issues] and create new QA tests as required.
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
|
* Remove tests that have been converted to Behat tests from the QA master list (Move them from MDLQA-1 to MDLQA-5249)
* Review tests that cannot be tested on qa.moodle.net by mere mortals and label these with ''test_server_required''.
| [[#tests|Testing Maintainer]]
|}

==5 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Announce code-freeze
| [[#dev|Development manager]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Once the integration server has ended with Monday's job [http://integration.moodle.org/view/tracker/job/Tracker%20-%20CI%20-%20Move%20awaiting%20issues%20to%20current%20integration Move awaiting issues to current integration] it will be disabled and, issues will be manually picked for integration until the post-release "On Sync" period ends (usually 3 weeks after release).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Prepare a fresh installation of the [http://qa.moodle.net QA site] based on the beta code to make sure the site is not affected by incremental upgrade steps during the development cycle.
| [[#qamaster|QA Master Site Maintainer]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Write documentation on new features in the dev docs, adding a link to it from the tracker issue, together with the label ''docs_required''. The documentation will then be transferred to the new en version wiki when it is set up (3 weeks prior) and polished, with screenshots added.
|
|}

==4 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Start working on the [[Releases|release notes]] ([[Release notes template|template]]) of the upcoming version.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Release normal weeklies but with these changes in the master branch:
* version.php: Move to $maturity = MATURITY_BETA and $release = 'X.Ybeta (Build:xxxxxxxx)'
* tag git repo with: "vX.Y.0-beta" (and MOODLE_XY_BETA as description and CVS tag)
And make packages available under download.moodle.org (and windows). Promote master up in the download page and adjust info for it.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| (Optionally) Announce Beta release in forums (ideally once packages are available).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| During the QA weeks integration becomes continuous; release STABLE weeklies normally but master release as often as possible (or on demand).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| At some points produce release candidates (Z = 1, 2, 3..), which are normal builds with:
* version.php: Move to $maturity = MATURITY_RC and $release = 'X.YrcZ (Build:xxxxxxxx)'
* tag git repo with: "vX.Y.0-rcZ" (and MOODLE_XY_RCZ as description and CVS tag)
* Make packages available under download.moodle.org (and Windows).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 6.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Add a new version in the Plugins Directory with the version's name and the beta release version build number (https://moodle.org/plugins/admin/softwareversions.php).
* Any standard plugins being retired from the release can transition to Add-on (that supports this release and/or any previous ones) now.
* These plugins currently collect at https://moodle.org/plugins/browse.php?list=contributor&id=1532512
| [[#plugins|Plugins Directory Maintainer]]
|-
| 7.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Tidy up current latest en version of Moodle Docs prior to copying it to create new version wiki as described in [[New docs version process]].
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 8.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create new QA test cycle and invite community volunteers to start [[QA testing]].
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 9.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Update the [https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=11454 QA testing dashboard].
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 10.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Monitor QA fails. Check each fail is real and if so ensure an MDL issue has been created and correctly linked and labelled.
| [[#tests|Testing Maintainer]]
|-
| 11.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Monitor MDL issues created for QA fails. Add them to the "Must fix for X.Y" list and get a developer to work on the issue immediately.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|}

==3 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Prompt developers to begin QA tests marked ''test_server_required''.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create new en and de Moodle Docs version wikis.
| [[#docs|Moodle Docs Maintainer]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Check [http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=labels+%3D+docs_required docs_required-labelled issues] and write new documentation, removing the label and commenting in the issue when the work is done.
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Go through all points listed under 3 weeks prior in [[New docs version process]].
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Review issues with labelled with [https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?filter=11824&jql=labels%20in%20%28dev_docs_required%29%20AND%20resolution%20%3D%20fixed%20ORDER%20BY%20assignee%20ASC%2C%20created%20ASC dev_docs_required], prompting assigned developers to create/update this documentation and remove this label when relevant docs are updated.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|}

==2 weeks prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
|
* Prompt developers to complete remaining QA tests.
* Ensure all QA tests are completed and passed by the end of the week.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|}

==1 week prior==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Clone as many filters as needed in the Tracker, modifying them to point to the new, upcoming, branch (keeping same perms, title...).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Create new minor version X.Y.Z+1 in the Tracker (MDL and CONTRIB). Archive any version > 6 months old.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Clone MDL-45486 and bump all versions, requires and dependencies along all plugins in codebase to planned release date.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Post a "Heads-up" message on the [http://partners.moodle.com/mod/forum/view.php?id=2 Partners forum] and [http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=55 General Developer forum].
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Post a "Heads-up" message on Twitter and other outlets.
| [[#marketing|Digital Marketing Specialist]]
|-
| 6.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Merge fixes from en_fix pack and then integrate them.
| [[#amos|AMOS Maintainer]]
|-
| 7.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| In https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-behat-extension project:
* For the new stable version:
*# Create a MOODLE_XY_STABLE branch from master
*# Hardcode upstream projects versions in moodle-behat-extension/composer.json according to the latest pulled versions when installing/updating the dependencies to avoid upstream changes breaking stable branches tests
*# Add a 1.XY.n tag to point to this new branch last commit
*# Clone https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43050 pointing to the tag created above and send it to integration
* For master:
*# Add a 1.X(Y+1).0 tag for the new release in the master branch
*# Clone MDL-39489, implement, and send it to integration (integration_held label).
| [[#tests|Testing Maintainer]]
|-
| 8.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Identify security issues that need to be integrated using the [http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=labels+%3D+security_held security_held label].
* Integrate from provided patches into supported branches (including branches supported only for security issues).
* Ensure security issues are given priority in weekly integration and testing.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 9.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Collect security issues into a clone of MDL-39530 to prepare for release of Security Advisories.
* Determine which security issues will be integrated.
* Request CVE Identifiers by emailing issue descriptions to [mailto:distros@vs.openwall.org distros@vs.openwall.org] with a message like... <tt> The following security issues have been discovered in Moodle. We request CVE Identifiers for these issues. We will be releasing the security announcements for these on moodle.org on XXX at 12noon AWST which is 04:00 UTC.</tt> The email subject should include the characters <tt>[vs]</tt>. The format needs to be plain text or encrypted. When granted CVE Identifiers, our issues should appear in the [http://cve.mitre.org/cve/cve.html CVE list]. More [http://oss-security.openwall.org/wiki/mailing-lists/distros instructions] are available.
* Post security issues as a reply to the "Heads-up" message on the [http://partners.moodle.com/mod/forum/view.php?id=2 Partners forum].
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 10.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Review and complete the [[Releases|release notes]] for the upcoming minor versions.
* Ensure all issues labelled with "ui_change" or "api_change" are listed as functional or API changes respectively in the release notes.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 11.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Check on the "Must fix for X.Y version". Filter out unrealistic issues.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 12.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Upgrade moodle.org (test server first, then production)
| [[#sysadmin|System Administrator]]
|}

==Releasing==
===Packaging===
This should happen immediately before the next integration cycle begins on Monday (i.e., some days after last weekly, 2 days prior to official release).
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Make sure there are no real blockers introduced in the last weekly (install / upgrade ...). Confirm that the latest [https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=summary%20~%20%22en_fix%22%20order%20by%20createdDate%20desc en_fix changes]have been generated and integrated.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Verify all unit tests and integration tests have passed.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Verify QA tests have passed.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| For major releases only:
* Update the CI server(s) by cloning all the "master" jobs to a new "MXY" view. Adjust "master" compare DB jobs to check for upgrade from MOODLE_XY_STABLE. Don't forget to re-chain the jobs properly.
Follow the "mdlrelease" steps:
* Run the '''prerelease.sh''' script to generate the target minor (--type minor) and major (--type major) releases and their corresponding tags. Follow the on-screen instructions. Triple verify all changes are correct!
* Push changes to integration.git (but tags)
* Once CI servers have ended and all jobs have passed, push tags and run the '''release.sh''' script to apply the changes to moodle.git
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Post a "git repos updated & tagged" message on the [http://partners.moodle.com/mod/forum/view.php?id=2 Partner forum]
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 6.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create a new MOODLE_XY+1_STABLE branch in https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-performance-comparison and set the new release commit hash as $basecommit
| [[#tests|Testing Maintainer]]
|-
| 7.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Wait for the automated moodle-package to finish building for all versions. Verify the process has ended successfuly (email).
For major releases only:
* Use the '''prerelease.sh''' script (--type back-to-dev) to move master to next X.Y+1 development version/branch. And push changes to integration.git - note this will lead to the "versions checker" failing for master, no problem, it will be fixed by the 1st cloned issue at #12 below).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 8.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
|
* Create new windows packager script (cloning the current master one and configuring it).
* Create new windows_wpiXY dir by cloning the previous one (HEAD based), configuring build-latest-XY.sh.
* Edit the stats.php script (in the serverscripts repository), adding the new branch to the versions. It will be automatically deployed.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 9.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| In the Tracker...
* Visit the versions page and make the release, bumping all remaining open bugs to the next point release. This must be done both for the [http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/project/ViewProject.jspa?pid=10011 Moodle Project] and the [http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/project/ViewProject.jspa?pid=10033 Add-ons project]. Archive any version > 6 months old.
* Remove from all screens the custom fields belonging to 100% unsupported branches.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 10.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create the new "Pull X.Y Branch" and "Pull X.Y Diff URL" custom fields and spread them to all the screens needing them (copy from previous ones). Order them properly on each screen. Reindex Tracker.
Also, in the CI servers ([http://integration.moodle.org/view/tracker/job/Tracker%20-%20CI%20-%20Bulk%20precheck%20issues/ 1], [http://ci.stronk7.com/view/tracker/job/Tracker%20-%20CI%20-%20Bulk%20precheck%20issues/ 2]), edit the "Bulk precheck issues" job to make it meet the new "Pull X.Y Branch" field created.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 11.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Create the new "X.Y regressions" version to be applied to every issue found to be a recent problem introduced by the major release. These issues should get priority after release.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 12.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Clone MDL-45502, MDL-45503 and MDL-45504, to be resolved ASAP.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 13.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Add/update the release date, build number and link on the [[Releases|Releases page]] and date in new version pages.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|}

===Release day===
Usually on Monday
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| The execution of "moodle-package-extract-and-postprocess X" script may be needed if the releases *are not going to be published on Monday* but another weekday (X is the weekday, (1-7) starting in Monday). By default it happens automatically around 09:00 AM Perth/Australia time.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Verify release status, download pages and windows packages.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| If needed, modify the downloads cfg script (serverscripts) to decide about branches status, master visibility and windows availability. Push changes, will be autodeployed in a few minutes.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Notify all registered sys admins, including security notes with CVE identifiers, using the [http://lists.moodle.org/ mailing list server].
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Post about the Major release on the [http://moodle.org/news/ moodle.org News forum]
| [[#lead|Lead Developer]]
|-
| 6.
|
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Post about minor releases on the [http://moodle.org/news/ moodle.org News forum]
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 7.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Post about the release on Twitter and other outlets. Update no. of releases on moodle.com 'Fact Sheet' page: http://moodle.com/news/moodle-fact-sheet/
| [[#marketing|Digital Marketing Specialist]]
|-
| 8.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| New "X.Y+1dev" branch to be created in AMOS, to have master changes performed there. New install_XY_STABLE processing set up. These needs to be done anytime during the on-sync period.
| [[#amos|AMOS Maintainer]]
|-
| 9.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Verify, 24h after tagging, that https://moodle.org/dev/ has been updated with new versions. If not, file an urgent mdlsite issue, crons must be running!
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 10.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| For en and de Moodle Docs, update default redirects and enable email notifications.
| [[#docs|Moodle Docs Maintainer]]
|-
| 11.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Go through all points listed under Day of release in [[New docs version process]].
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|-
| 12.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
|
* Decide the "Full demo", "Code freeze" and "QA begins" dates for the next X.(Y+1) major release and put them in the Moodle development calendar. They will be -7w, -5w and -4w before release date respectively.
* Update the "Full demo", "Code freeze", "QA begins" and Release dates on the [[Roadmap]] page.
* Add events to the HQ calendar for next Major release 6-months cycle according to [[Process#Sprints|the cycle plan]]: ~4 weeks planning and regression fixing, 2 sprints, 1 personal project week, 2 sprints, 1 personal project week, 1 sprint (which should lead up to code freeze).
* Notify the Community Manager of new dates to be added to the moodle.org calendar.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 13.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Upgrade all moodle.org and moodle.net sites to latest release version.
| [[#sysadmin|System Administrator]]
|-
| 14.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" |
| Add calendar events in the moodle.org calendar for coming Major and Minor releases up to the next Major release.
| [[#community|Community Manager]]
|}

==1 week after==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Publish the X.Y+ packages for download.moodle.org (should be automatic once weeklies are packaged).
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 2.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Update the version.php in git to be X.Y.Z+ during the next weekly integration process
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|-
| 3.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Create a new release notes page for the next minor versions (using the [[Release notes template|release notes template]].)
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 4.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Add all security advisories to [http://moodle.org/security Security news] and [[:Category:Release notes|release notes]] with links to security advisories
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|-
| 5.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
| Send a plain text email to the OSS mailing list: [mailto:oss-security@lists.openwall.com oss-security@lists.openwall.com]. An appropriate message when sending the issues is...
:<tt>The following security notifications have now been made public. Thanks to OSS members for their cooperation.</tt>
...followed by the security notes.
| [[#dev|Development Manager]]
|}
==3 weeks after==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Once the "On Sync" period ends the [http://integration.moodle.org/view/tracker/job/Tracker%20-%20CI%20-%20Move%20awaiting%20issues%20to%20current%20integration/ Move awaiting issues to current integration] job will be re-enabled in the public CI server.
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|}

==1 month after==
{| class="table table-striped table-bordered"
|-
! style="width:20px" | #
! style="width:20px" | Major
! style="width:20px" | Minor
! Task
! style="width:12%" | Responsibility
|-
| 1.
| style="text-align:center" | ✓
|
| Publish the X.(Y+1)dev packages for download.moodle.org
| [[#integration|Integration Lead]]
|}
</div>

==See also==

* [[Deprecation|Deprecation process]]

[[Category:Processes|Release process]]
[[Category:Release notes|Release process]]

Developer meeting April 2014

2014-04-29T09:27:21Z

Xymoodle:

[[Developer meetings]] > April 2014 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2014&month=4&day=29&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 29 April 2014]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://j.mp/moodledev-mtg-2904 Moodle Google+ Event page]
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we will focus on the impending release.

The meeting will be streamed live via [http://j.mp/moodledev-mtg-2904 Google+ Hangouts On Air] and on [http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlehq MoodleHQ YouTube channel], with chat through the regular Dev chat room and comments on Twitter.

== Agenda ==
* [[Moodle_2.7_release_notes|Moodle 2.7]] progress
** [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43841 Atto] (Damyon Wiese)
** Theme clean-up and [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43786 More theme] (Frédéric Massart)
** [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-44070 Conditional activity conditions] (Sam Marshall)
** [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-25499 Task scheduling] (Cron improvements) (Damyon Wiese)
** [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37658 Logging] (Petr Skoda)
* What does LTS mean? (Martin Dougiamas)
* [[Hackfest_UK_2014|MootUK14 Hackfest]] (Michael de Raadt)

If you have something you'd like to add to the agenda, please [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/index.php?title=Developer_meeting_January_2014&action=edit edit this page] or contact [http://moodle.org/user/profile.php?id=381842 Michael d].

== Questions from the Audience ==
* Please give some status report on the development progress of : LTI, xAPI (TinCan) & SCORM modules.
* Since the events system got overhauled in Moodle 2.7, what is the future of the messaging system and API?

Developer meeting January 2014

2014-01-23T07:42:42Z

Xymoodle:

[[Developer meetings]] > January 2014 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2014&month=1&day=21&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 21 January 2014]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlehq/videos Moodle HQ YouTube channel] (changed since last meeting)
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we focused on Moodle development happening outside Moodle HQ.

The meeting was streamed live on YouTube with chat through the regular Dev chat room and comments on Twitter.

== Meeting Video ==

<mediaplayer>http://youtu.be/o5G0nPzGpZI</mediaplayer>
''Note: For an optimised view and to see the chat log, change settings to 1024p HD quality.''

== Meeting Notes ==
=== Possible future changes to Conditional Activities (Sam Marshall, OU) ===
* More flexible, plug-able conditions
* Better access through groupings
* Better interface, lean and mean
* No docs yet, spec and issues coming

=== Quiz editing changes (Tim Hunt, Colin Chamber, Mahmoud Kassaei, OU) ===
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987 Issue], [https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180 Discussion]
* Dependency between questions as a user works through a quiz
* Improving the interface to make it simpler, similar to course page editing, which people are familiar with.
* Possibly a new "combinable" question type that allows something similar to cloze, but with a simpler interface.
* Possibly other OU question types coming to core. It would be good if the community could provide feedback on what's in the Plugins Directory currently.

=== Moodle 2.7 progress ===
==== Prototypes site (Martin Dougiamas) ====
* [http://prototypes.moodle.net prototypes.moodle.net]
* A site for early development to gather feedback
* Projects currently there include navigation, editor replacement, forum changes, outcomes...

==== Clean as default theme (Jérôme Mouneyrac) ====
* [https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097 Notes]
* Resolve open bugs
* Default theme on new install
* Increase configurability, requires ability to compile LESS on-the-fly.
* New navigation is being considered
* Adding an element library
* Allow people to add bootswatches
* It intended that we will move most themes to Plugins Directory (not Standard, Clean or base themes)
* Bootstrap 3 has been considered and won't be adopted yet

==== Editor replacement (Damyon Wiese) ====
* [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7 Docs]
* TinyMCE3 is out of support
* Editor is critical part of Moodle and has huge impact on user experience
* Editor search narrowed down to TinyMCE4, CKEditor and Atto.
* Prototypes were put up and feedback requested.
* Tending towards Atto, with a CKEditor in the Plugins Directory for those who want it.

==== Old Assignment removal (Damyon Wiese) ====
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952 Issue]
* The old assignment has been removed and on upgrade instances of the old assignment will be converted to the new.
* If you are using an old assignment type that is not represented in the new assignment you will have to install the old assignment module from the Plugins Directory

==== Outcomes (Andrew Davis) ====
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 Issue], [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification Docs]
* A lot of work done on Outcomes before 2.6 that didn't make it into the release.
* We're reviewing Totara and Elis to see what features are needed overall.

==== New logging (Rajesh Taneja) ====
* New events system is in place
* Old logging calls are being converted to events
* More information captured than previous logging
* Performance is an issue, with more events being captured
** Initiatives to optimise DB queries with a single batch insert at the end of a page load.
* Ability to create new observers to reduce the reliance on the log table for real-time analytics
* Logging system is more plugable.
** Potential to push logs to external database

=== Moodle Mobile update (Juan Leyva) ===
* New version of app coming soon (fixing issues with new devices with Android 4.4 and old devices with Android 2.1 and 2.3)
* Potential to use the app from the desktop (See https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop)
* PUSH notifications is top priority

=== Integration update (Dan Poltawski) ===
* Pre-checking of issues by CiBot (Continuous integration bot) automated checks on changes before they are submitted to integration (waiting for integration, peer review or with label "cime") ([https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 Issue])
* Testing requirements
** PHPUnit or Behat tests required for changes
* Behat improvements
** Working on Linux and Windows. Firefox is the preferred browser. Chrome is being improved. IE is somewhat working and Safari... ([https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Browsers Docs])
** You can get automatic screenshots when a test fails ($CFG->behat_screenshots_path: [http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=blob;f=config-dist.php#l659 link])
** Parallel Behat testing ([https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39752 issue])
* Misc
** Specific rules for [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting backporting]
** Please be aware of the [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Schedule weekly integration schedule]

=== Long term support (Martin Dougiamas) ===
* 2.7 is going to be a long-term release that will be supported for longer (3 years instead of 18months)
* Backports will be required to backport bug-fixes to the LTS release

=== A better video conferencing solution for Gen Dev meetings? (Michael de Raadt) ===
* GoToMeeting (no free)
* Need more suggestions

=== Questions ===

Q. What are the plans in 2.7 for Gradebook improvements? 
A. Minor bugs being fixed. Three major projects happening, but not going into 2.7. (See MDL-25423)

Q. Will the base theme no longer receive updates or be actively worked on? 
A. It will be kept for long term support and fixed for bugs, but may go away after a number of versions.

Q. Anymore changes to the event system? We want to start planning/scoping out analytics/alerts using the new event system in 2.6, but don't want to progress if more changes are expected. 
A. Mostly stable now.

Q. Global Search? 
A. Code has been written. Waiting for code review for core.

Q. Any plans to actually treat the code freeze deadline as a code freeze for 2.7? 
A. That freeze should be colder than last time.

== Live Attendees ==
Adam Olley, Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Bennett, Dan Poltawski, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy Lafuente, Eric Merrill, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jason Hardin, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Justin Filip, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Kirsty, Marina Glancy, Mark Johnson, Martin Dougiamas, Martín Langhoff, Mary Cooch, Matthew Spurrier, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Moodle Bot, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kabalin, S Bourget, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshall, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, XY Ng

== Meeting chat log ==
<div style="height:300px;overflow:auto;">
{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| 123
| 9:02:39 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| ping
| 9:02:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| testing
| 9:02:43 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Hi, all.
| 9:02:44 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Good morning
| 9:02:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| commiserations sam
| 9:03:03 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| what is it there sam h?
| 9:03:03 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| hello
| 9:03:06 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| 2am now
| 9:03:09 PM
|-
| Barbara Ramiro
| Hi
| 9:03:16 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| awesome. going out raving after the meeting?
| 9:03:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Did someone say rave?
| 9:03:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| techno techno techno techno]#
| 9:03:46 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| unce unce unce
| 9:03:48 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| If someone is using a screen reader here they're probably getting excited!
| 9:04:15 PM
|-
| danbennett
| brrrrr wubwubwub do doo doo brrwub
| 9:04:28 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Hello
| 9:04:42 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Hi
| 9:04:50 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Hello
| 9:04:57 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| hey, by end of the meeting you can play the 'it's 4 o'clock in the morning and it's starting to get light' happy hardcore song, I love that one.
| 9:04:59 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Yes! :D
| 9:05:10 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| is the link to youtubepasted here?
| 9:06:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
|
| 9:06:31 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Now it is
| 9:06:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I can get chat on my iPad burr some reason Adium is borked
| 9:06:41 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| It's live
| 9:07:01 PM
|-
| danbennett
| You're on! *waves*
| 9:07:31 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| we can see you
| 9:07:33 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Moodle Meetings: you're on my radar
| 9:07:42 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Sam just said responded to bug reports
| 9:08:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Time the lag
| 9:08:59 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Now
| 9:09:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
| now
| 9:09:27 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| oh wow
| 9:10:28 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| "or"/not
| 9:10:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (do we do introductions/his?)
| 9:11:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Tim you can be next if you want
| 9:11:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I need to open some browser tabs
| 9:11:48 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| sorry Im late
| 9:12:17 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| pidgin doesn't like my laptop
| 9:12:28 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| loving it
| 9:12:57 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I don't know where to comment about this..
| 9:13:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| but we've got a few things which want pluggable versions of the same thigns now
| 9:13:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| like badges
| 9:13:19 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Is there a tracker ticket for these changes?
| 9:13:27 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| although now i'm thinking, does badges allow activity level awards
| 9:13:40 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK, I think I am ready.
| 9:14:12 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Good [insert appropriate time of day / night here] everyone.
| 9:16:11 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I thought badges used conditional activities
| 9:17:06 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes, performance will be tough
| 9:17:59 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Dan P: +1 for trying not to do same things in paralel
| 9:18:09 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| I can imagine some open courseware sites that would love conditional courses with the same sorts of rules too
| 9:18:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hi from Tim at the OU in Milton Keynes.
| 9:18:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Hi, Dan from Moodle HQ, Perth Australia
| 9:18:43 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Hi, my name is David
| 9:18:54 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Hi, Davo, Synergy Learning (but based in Sheffield)
| 9:18:59 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Hi from the Netherlands!
| 9:19:06 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| Hi, from Jenny at the OU in Milton Keynes
| 9:19:06 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Hello
| 9:19:08 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| Hi, Tomek Muras here
| 9:19:10 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| Hi from Albuquerque
| 9:19:10 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Hi from Belgium
| 9:19:11 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Hi, Adrian from Moodle HQ, Perth
| 9:19:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Hello! Dan from HowToMoodle (UK)
| 9:19:13 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Hi, Sam Hemelryk from Nelson, New Zealand
| 9:19:15 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Jason from HQ
| 9:19:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| sam at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK (as hopefully you noticed from logo on all my slides
| 9:19:21 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Hi, Adam from NetSpot
| 9:19:24 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| Hi, Jerome from Moodle HQ, Perth
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| kirsty
| Hi from Kirsty at HowToMoodle
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Hi from Amy Groshek, Minnesota, US
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| Barbara Ramiro
| Hi from HQ
| 9:19:27 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Hello, Rex from Los Angeles, CA, USA
| 9:19:32 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| hi from HQ
| 9:19:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi, Aparup Banerjee, moodle HQ perth
| 9:19:40 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| Hi from Moodle HQ outpost in Preston Lancs
| 9:19:41 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Hi, David Mudrak, Czech
| 9:19:42 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Hi, Steve from New Hampshire USA
| 9:19:46 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Hi, Prateek Sachan here.
| 9:19:48 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| hi, Helen in Belgium
| 9:20:04 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| lol, I liked the 'what the hell are we doing' there
| 9:21:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Haha
| 9:21:36 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming.
| 9:21:37 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas waves from home in Perth
| 9:21:50 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| wow, sam my time lag is even longer than yours!
| 9:21:51 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| so can you define dependency between questions on the question level (so in question bank and not just in the quiz)
| 9:23:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987
| 9:24:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180
| 9:24:33 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| error at moodlehq
| 9:25:54 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| restarting
| 9:25:57 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| back now
| 9:26:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| you look to be back Moodle Meetings
| 9:26:24 PM
|-
| jfilip
| I just heard Michael ask everyone to say hi and where they are from. Wow... the lag is going to make asking questions here really difficult.
| 9:26:25 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| snap
| 9:26:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://github.com/moodleou/moodle-qtype_combined
| 9:27:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| jfilip: can you think of your questions in advance?
| 9:27:25 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
|
| 9:27:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| I just reloaded the G+ event page so hopefully it's less lagged now?
| 9:28:45 PM
|-
| danbennett
| We're looking at tims Github screen if that helps jfilip
| 9:29:09 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| http://www.open.edu/openlearnworks/course/view.php?id=1643
| 9:29:18 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, it looks like you can scroll ahead in the timeline on the YouTube player so I think I'm up much closer to "live".
| 9:30:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
| If you click the text saying "live" it should forward you right to it as well. (red dot for watching live, grey for behind)
| 9:30:51 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Yes, it's got the red dot showing "Live" since I scrolled ahead. Perfect.
| 9:31:29 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Drag and drop is tough on screen readers
| 9:32:02 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| +1 on the DnD questions. We love them here.
| 9:32:29 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| There are aria guideline for drag and drop. They are complex though
| 9:33:11 PM
|-
| jfilip
| We could gather some numbers on usage of qtypes on our customer's sites for contrib types.
| 9:33:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lesson: with a decent ui..
| 9:33:51 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Using_the_question_engine_from_module
| 9:34:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| can we force the camera on martin?
| 9:36:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| michael, mute microphone please? it keeps switching to you
| 9:36:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks
| 9:37:12 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I muted him
| 9:37:12 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| we have
| 9:37:20 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| we don't see your screen martin
| 9:38:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I do
| 9:38:11 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| i do
| 9:38:25 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| fyi, to stop the screen jumping around you can click on whoever you want it to stay on. click their thumbnail at the bottom of the hangout.
| 9:39:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| HQ I hope you are remembering to direct the camera for the recording
| 9:39:47 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Whers the beers HQ?
| 9:39:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| omg no beers
| 9:40:25 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (it's super hot here, I could really use one)
| 9:40:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| that's a lot of crazy people at HQ ... you know you have to travel home after this ... unless the tenants upstairs can be bribed ...
| 9:40:55 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| TimH just popped on screen for me (again)
| 9:41:35 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43784
| 9:41:37 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097
| 9:41:38 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I have beer. White rabbit.
| 9:41:59 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| Martin -21C here. (opposite of super hot)
| 9:42:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| i've got a flask.. of hot water and mint tea..
| 9:42:24 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| yay automatic less compiler in core!
| 9:43:02 PM
|-
| XY Ng
| martin: yep we are directing the camera
| 9:43:15 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Please stop talking about the element library, and get the code in core!!!
| 9:43:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
|
| 9:43:38 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| (We need elements first ;))
| 9:43:54 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No, release early and release often.
| 9:44:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDL-36558
| 9:44:16 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36558 - Add element library to moodle.V: 11, W: 22, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Sam Hemelryk, Priority: Critical, Status: Development in progress
| 9:44:17 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Get the basic strucutre, there, then people can add to it.
| 9:44:18 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Not sure if it was mentioned, but does the LESS compiler mean we'll get rid of compiled LESS css files from being tracked at all?
| 9:44:48 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| jay for bootswatches!
| 9:44:58 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| +1 release early n often n om
| 9:45:01 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes it would, they would go in moodledata
| 9:45:24 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Awesome
| 9:45:31 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Ooo i likey
| 9:45:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
|
| 9:45:47 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| compiled less is a pain when cherry picking :P
| 9:46:07 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| ^
| 9:46:26 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| does it do less compiling when setting the bootswatch?
| 9:46:27 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| No, this is just a POC
| 9:46:37 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| But it could (should?)
| 9:46:51 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| custom css styles go in moodledata too then i guess?
| 9:47:04 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| I think they already do
| 9:47:26 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| the do indeed
| 9:47:40 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| custom css styles should go into the themes
| 9:47:41 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| *they
| 9:47:49 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 
| 9:48:05 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| ah! here at last! took some work to get empathy working here
| 9:48:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| hey hi
| 9:48:26 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Welcome.
| 9:48:33 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| I have been enjoying the show over breakfast
| 9:48:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| try and look at the agenda and ask your questions 2min in advance
| 9:48:39 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| POC = Point Of Care?
| 9:48:54 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Proof of concept
| 9:49:06 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| (isn't that right? lol)
| 9:49:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| y
| 9:49:22 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Not Piece Of Cake?
| 9:49:28 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| The cake is a lie adrian. A lie!!!!!!
| 9:49:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Nano, Pico, Atto
| 9:51:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Are we really, really, sure we want to maintain our own editor?
| 9:51:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| +1 about text editor being important. I'd be interested in how well it works in narrow width, that's a problem with current..
| 9:51:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| tim that is the question that is not decided
| 9:52:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| but i have to say I'm tending that way after lots of thinking
| 9:52:44 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the greatest benefit of maintaining our own editor is that we never have to worry about upstream changes, abandonment, and the featureset is always what we want. The worst part of that is that we would have to do the work ourselves
| 9:54:41 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| and there is no community around the editor already
| 9:54:57 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (I am suspicious about all the maths comments.. I know its important, but I also know the maths editor community are very vocal.. have to balance that to average moodle user who doesn't know what moodle.org is)
| 9:54:58 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| ^
| 9:55:10 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Which of these editors have the options configurable, and how accessible is the config? Currently we are trying to alter the options for the editor in the db with an install script. Giving people options is nice, but then they complain when their theme doesn't apply to the text they've borked in the text editorâ€¦
| 9:55:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| maths is pretty much the same for all editors in that we need to do some custom work for all
| 9:55:34 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| we asked the survey takers to test the maths editor ...
| 9:55:47 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| there was a license issue with dragmath as well
| 9:55:54 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| The other thing you need to consider with the editor
| 9:55:56 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| is the 3rd party plugins that use it currently
| 9:56:02 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Dragmath and things like voice / audio recording in the editor are very popular 3rd party plugins for our customers.
| 9:56:07 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| and all of the support you will need to have for them
| 9:56:09 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| amygroshek: they all have cionfigurable options
| 9:56:15 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| drag math also works not at all on mobile
| 9:56:15 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| there are several 3rd party math plugins
| 9:56:17 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| atto is the easiest to configure already
| 9:56:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| and I think TinyMCE 4 is the next easiest
| 9:56:39 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| All 3rd party plugins would need to be re-written regardless.
| 9:56:41 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| followed very very closely by CKEditor
| 9:56:51 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| sort of
| 9:56:52 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| some editors will already have plugins for them
| 9:56:58 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| benefit of a standard os editor
| 9:57:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| CK has lots, that's the main advantage of it
| 9:57:11 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| my plugin should work for Tinymce in all innstances of it
| 9:57:18 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| atto i have to make a plugin specifically to moodle
| 9:57:40 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Atto will cost us a lot more
| 9:57:43 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Jason Hardin: some will have plugins that can be modified to work, yes, but not all of them can be taken and made to work with Moodle without considerable effort
| 9:57:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| We have a few editor plugins at the OU (biggest is our maths one). Also need to turn off standard things that don't work well for us... *shrugs*
| 9:58:18 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Use Atto. It has less options. = less theme support problems for amy.
| 9:58:19 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Atto is close to what would work on mobile (limited set of options, neat interface)
| 9:58:21 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I'm not that bothered about updating the plugins if we don't have to do it instantly though, it says on that wiki page it'll keep old tinymce for a few versions
| 9:58:41 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?
| 9:58:47 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Just one thing about simple editor - I 100% agree but our users are probably going to go ape if we take all their features (tables, colour, stupid crap they shouldn't use) from them...
| 9:59:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For Moodle, the 1/3 row switching is very nice.
| 9:59:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| not students, but tutors etc
| 9:59:33 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (editor for mobile is stupid IMO. Its going to be built into the mobile os)
| 9:59:44 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Sam, educate them =)
| 9:59:46 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Dan P: I agree, different editor (or none) for mobile
| 10:00:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| jfilip - tried that before
| 10:00:08 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| just try and edit a line on a mobile phone with the standrard iphone/android interfaces
| 10:00:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its painful, and I imagine they will innovate with their oses
| 10:00:29 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| any moodle editor used with conflcit with it when they change
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Would implementing Atto put in in the same situation we saw with Moodle 1.x with Htmlarea editor?
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| dan - okay but how do you do, I dunno, insert an image together with upload into moodle filesystem? that needs custom buttons etc
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
|
| 10:00:52 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Evernote has a really nice mobile editing interface, you can push a "keyboard" button to remove text input and replace that part of your screen with formatting options. It's really smart and easy to use.
| 10:01:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Stephen, the opposite. HTMLarea was third-pary and it died.
| 10:01:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| If we build atto ourself, it won't die for as long as we use it.
| 10:01:34 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| jfilip: is that html5 only or in an app?
| 10:01:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| AFAIK, it's in the app. I've never used their Android app before but that's how the editor works in iOS. It's super handy on a phone screen.
| 10:02:06 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| I woukld recommend talking to the accesisblity grou[
| 10:02:36 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| is atto liscensed?
| 10:02:39 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| about how costly that will be
| 10:02:40 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| is that where the cost is?
| 10:02:46 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Jason, Martin posted there this morning.
| 10:02:48 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto
| 10:03:17 PM
|-
| jfilip
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7
| 10:03:27 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Thanks
| 10:03:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| RIP mod/assignment
| 10:04:18 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas has another small minute of silence
| 10:04:36 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Tracker issue for the mod_assignment removal?
| 10:05:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952
| 10:05:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| thx
| 10:05:48 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| On the accessibility group i did see the email breifly this morning. It was 4;30 am when i got up to get to this meeting. I still think it is better to talk to them in the next meeting
| 10:06:14 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (lol at gang sign)
| 10:06:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| will mod_assignment live on as an add-on at all ?
| 10:06:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?
| 10:06:50 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| the editor has been mentioned in previous meetings but I don't know that the group has been focused on the topic.
| 10:06:54 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah in moodle.org/plugins
| 10:06:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| isn't it there already? Should be
| 10:07:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| can't add 2.7 plugins yet
| 10:07:14 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Not yet.
| 10:07:24 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| HQ: change the feed view
| 10:07:33 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| What dan said
| 10:07:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| roger
| 10:07:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Is there a wiki page for this latest outcomes work?
| 10:09:02 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| The youtube feed is still looking at Damyon and gang
| 10:09:04 PM
|-
| jfilip
| ( / research / etc. )
| 10:09:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| where are you listening to Eric?
| 10:09:17 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| It is a shame, I do not know (recognise) anyone of those 7 who is sitting at the table, can someone list their names
| 10:09:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Raj is with Damyon
| 10:09:23 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| jfilip: Not as yet.
| 10:09:25 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| MDL-40230
| 10:09:27 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 - Integrate Outcomes stage 2 into core.V: 3, W: 34, Type: Bug, Assignee: Mark Nielsen, Priority: Blocker, Status: Reopened
| 10:09:28 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| jfilip: basically we didn't make any decision about hiding/removing themes . I think the best it's to go to each issues. About bootstrap3 it's most likely we won't have it in 2.7.
| 10:09:29 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, Jerome.
| 10:09:59 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| mouneyrac: Do you have the link to that document we made, including the BS3 details?
| 10:10:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Ruslan Kabalin: testing my short term memory.. Jerome, XY, Rosie, Raj, David Mo, Ankit, Damyon
| 10:10:23 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Jerome, XY, Rossie, Raj, DavidMo,
| 10:10:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| See MDL-40177 about Bootstrap 3
| 10:10:33 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes it's in the document I lined and in the issue too
| 10:10:34 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40177 - Update to Bootstrap v3.V: 7, W: 19, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 10:10:34 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| I was late
| 10:10:35 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| thanks
| 10:10:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I still have this serious concern about the logging stuff. Look at the diff stat for https://github.com/markn86/moodle/compare/master...MDL-40063_master "Showing 35 changed files with 1,599 additions and 35 deletions. " This is a change that bring no user-visible benefit. How to we justify that huge lines-of-code count? Surely this is a clear sign that the design if flawed.
| 10:11:09 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40063 - Replace add_to_log with an event trigger - mod_quiz.V: 0, W: 4, Type: Task, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Reopened
| 10:11:10 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ktkigIsJrxcqPeHWcDdRANA1072JVZZ0azg0INo6v48/edit#heading=h.mhopzjiavfyi
| 10:11:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Petr is off-screen. Lucky.
| 10:11:22 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| that's the bootstrap3 link
| 10:11:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| jfilip, see https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 and https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification for the outcomes system from Moodlerooms. A document detailing what features we want based on examining the moodlerooms system as well as Totara and Elis will appear in the next few days.
| 10:11:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Logging is eventually about analytics and notifications, real-time
| 10:12:19 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Liking the look of this!
| 10:12:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| logging looks nice in the UI, but we have a potential concern with performance as it's a massive cost in the current system already - especially if there are more things logged. (I.e. at the moment a typical student page view logs 1 thing - is that still true?)
| 10:12:33 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| We store more information about an event, that's true
| 10:13:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Could we change it to chuck it into a local file or something instead, for instance?
| 10:13:25 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (with custom logging plugin)
| 10:13:30 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah sure
| 10:13:33 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| But you can set up not to store some
| 10:13:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| ah OK, single insert sounds good
| 10:13:38 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Andrew, thanks.
| 10:13:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| the profile of Moodle will change. Some things will be slower, but some things will be faster
| 10:14:01 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDL-34055
| 10:14:02 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34055 - Database function for fast bulk inserts.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Major, Status: Waiting for peer review
| 10:14:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| ok this sounds good - thanks. Just had concern because it's probably one of the slowest things at present.
| 10:14:20 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| What are the different types? You mentioned "Educational", what are the others?
| 10:14:34 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| well yeah that's why building analytics on top of it is a bad idea
| 10:14:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (old logs)
| 10:14:48 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I am not sure that I am convinced by the 'it is pluggable so we can do antyhing' argument. editors are pluggable, so we now have a big debate about which editor to implement, and a lot of work to do it.
| 10:14:56 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (At OU we don't do anything that reads log table I think - we've disabled all those things.)
| 10:15:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| you can ignore our editor :D
| 10:15:13 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No, you can';t What we really want is one editor that works for everyone. If that is possible.
| 10:15:34 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| *nods* got it, thanks.
| 10:15:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Plugins with special needs can listen direct to events instead of parsing logs
| 10:16:16 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Another benefit is ability for reports NOT to use log table
| 10:16:22 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Grr I'm always slow on this iPad
| 10:16:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Great - looks good.
| 10:16:41 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Petr is surprisingly quiet
| 10:17:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks for answering all the questions
| 10:17:46 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Sorry, you answered my point?
| 10:18:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I don't think so.
| 10:18:17 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Editor?
| 10:18:43 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| tim - the editor one or the thousands of lines of code one?
| 10:18:51 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Which point Tim?
| 10:18:59 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| SO, to conver the add-to-log calls in the quiz, 35 lines of existing code are repalced by 1600 lines of new code. How is that anything other than the sign of a totally broken API?
| 10:19:04 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Lines of code in logging
| 10:19:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| yes we see it
| 10:19:12 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes
| 10:19:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| no browser yet
| 10:19:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I see the browser
| 10:19:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| ah got it now
| 10:20:01 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Perhaps some backend folks want to answer why the API is not broken
| 10:20:03 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| It is important to have more lines to have reliable, constant information
| 10:20:04 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| or quiz is broken
| 10:20:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No trolling please
| 10:20:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| It is important to have reliable, constant information. I am not convince that requires thousands of lines of code.
| 10:20:50 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Sorry about that.
| 10:20:56 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Moodel Meetings, woudl you like to say who you are?
| 10:21:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas never liked all the classes nonsense
| 10:21:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| I also have doubts about new logging - I'm not sure what are we really getting here in return for more complexity. What kind of real life issue are we solving?
| 10:21:36 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Most of that is class declarations and unit tests.
| 10:21:37 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Me too
| 10:21:45 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| yes breaking up here too
| 10:21:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Wait, Tim are you saying that 35 lines that were previously executed to write a log now goes through 1600 lines or 1600 lines is just the total of the patch?
| 10:21:48 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes for us too
| 10:21:49 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| making quite nice bell type noises
| 10:21:51 PM
|-
| danbennett
| here too
| 10:22:14 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Rajesh: We need to have some framework which can check adde to event
| 10:22:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lines of code is a stupid metric for anything.
| 10:22:17 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| bad audio here too
| 10:22:20 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| I'm loosing sound
| 10:22:23 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| here to
| 10:22:24 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| breaking up
| 10:22:24 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| yep
| 10:22:29 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| speaker needs a cat5
| 10:22:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Also, lines of source code doesn't translate to interpreted opcode being executed.
| 10:22:53 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes, events are more complex than addtolog but add to log was adhoc and not guaranteed to be useful
| 10:23:17 PM
|-
| jfilip
| But, to bring it around, yes, profiling logging before / after those changes will be very important.
| 10:23:20 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Dan P, in term of mainteneance, number of lines of code thta have to be written to fire one event is a reasonable metric.
| 10:23:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| your painting an extreme picture
| 10:23:37 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| yeah, less code is always better if possible
| 10:23:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| looking at that code ~50% is unit tests
| 10:23:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| probably another 25% is comments
| 10:24:10 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| now, smartly written code can still hit the hot paths
| 10:24:18 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Petr: please stop complaining about new events, it is part of public API since 2.6, it is nit going away, it works for new reports so far
| 10:24:23 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| so it's hard to tell without reading / profiling
| 10:24:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Dan P, if representing one event is so complex, it requires unit tests to verify the code is correct, I don't think that is a good sign.
| 10:24:40 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| It's not just lines, it's a different API, thus different way of working. Switching from a single function call to an OO model had to create more lines
| 10:24:50 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Fred, exactly. I see no evidence that is a good trade-off.
| 10:25:10 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Everything New requires either unit or begat test s regardless of complexity.
| 10:25:33 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Juan: Sorry I couldn't hear very well. This OS X app of moodle mobile available now or with the latest release?
| 10:25:33 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| is there any audio atm?
| 10:25:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| adrian, so don't require a new class for every single event.
| 10:25:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Dan, v soon
| 10:25:57 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| dan: yes
| 10:25:59 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Cool!
| 10:26:07 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Raj: It would be nice to look at Log and live log reports changes and it gives more information and better filtering.
| 10:26:26 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| We just need more people getting around this Mobile client and extending it
| 10:26:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Am I the only person who can't hear anything?
| 10:26:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| in the hangout?
| 10:26:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Audio good for me
| 10:27:00 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| youtube audio is fine
| 10:27:02 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I can hear but not see Juan.
| 10:27:03 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| leaving and coming back
| 10:27:08 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| it worked ok for me
| 10:27:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| audio works fine for me as well
| 10:27:29 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Any change to logging would generate more test code regardless of the architecture.
| 10:27:43 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Do you have many stats on the numbers of app downloads of the old versions?
| 10:28:05 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| is messages.moodle.net going to serve anyone who want to use notifications out there?
| 10:28:06 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Raj: If we don't add class then we need to process every event, which needs more processing and sometimes unreliable information (Legacy events which were added previously was good example that one line code is not always goodâ€¦ )
| 10:28:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| adrian, it is a scalability thing. Does every new event requrie new unit tests, O, or does just the core of the system require unit tests, optimisation, etc. O(1).
| 10:28:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Should be the latter.
| 10:28:31 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| An event is just data, not behaviour.
| 10:28:57 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Juan is there a doc for the nodewebkit/moodle mobile app stuff on moodle.org? Be interesting to see it
| 10:29:00 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| There should be no functionality to test.
| 10:29:05 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| There is a need for data validation
| 10:29:24 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the functionality and test should be of the API, not the individial events ...
| 10:29:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| JAson, yes, but that is not how it currently works.
| 10:29:48 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| but if each event is it's own function, then a unit test will be required...
| 10:29:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| in theory
| 10:30:04 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Events don't get introduced every day. It should be tested and added with proper thought.
| 10:30:05 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I asked about download stats for the app
| 10:30:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Exactly. 'IF;
| 10:30:08 PM
|-
| jleyva@jabber.org
| https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop
| 10:30:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Links for integration update: 
[1] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 
[2] cime 
[3] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Browsers 
[4] $CFG->behat_screenshots_path: http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=blob;f=config-dist.php#l659 
[5] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting 
[6] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Schedule 
[7] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39752 
| 10:30:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Thans Juan!
| 10:30:47 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Nope
| 10:31:27 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| we can hear you dan
| 10:31:27 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| cibot looks suspiciously like a smurf
| 10:31:49 PM
|-
| jleyva@jabber.org
| Aparup messages.moodle.net is only for registered Moodle sites
| 10:32:48 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 
| 10:32:59 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| cime
| 10:33:12 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| cime doesn't pay ...
| 10:33:33 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| :D
| 10:33:47 PM
|-
| jfilip
| cime is great
| 10:33:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| comme ci, comme ca
| 10:34:09 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| I'm addicted to cime
| 10:34:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDLSITE-2662
| 10:34:20 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 - First public runs of prechecker against various criteria.V: 1, W: 5, Type: Task, Assignee: Eloy Lafuente (stronk7), Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 10:34:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Just been asked by Ray Lawrence whether theres any info regarding decisions of server requirements for 2.7 if thats able to be covered today. (Don't shoot the messenger!! :P)
| 10:35:14 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it's NOT perfect???
| 10:35:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| cime watch!
| 10:35:18 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| We do shifter checks on all issues, but its a different bot
| 10:35:59 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| phpunit which is easy to install and behat which is impossible to install ;)
| 10:36:03 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Mdk ftw
| 10:36:35 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No. Behat is easy
| 10:36:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| with less compiler being considered to go into core as the in-built thing - any same ideas for shifter?
| 10:36:43 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No it isn't.
| 10:36:45 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| It is getting easier.
| 10:36:50 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Ask OU bosses to let you install serious OS
| 10:36:57 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| LOL
| 10:37:03 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| lol
| 10:37:04 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| good idea, but
| 10:37:09 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Dan Bennet: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.7_release_notes
| 10:37:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Martin: Yeah I did say to him ... thanks
| 10:37:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| that's current, AFAIK
| 10:37:38 PM
|-
| danbennett
| for now ;) haha
| 10:37:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I doubt it will change further
| 10:38:02 PM
|-
| danbennett
| ok
| 10:38:06 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Please, report issues and we can work on them
| 10:38:14 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I know I'm going to have to make behat work (for the conditional activity thing) and am dreading it
| 10:39:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| then you will love it
| 10:39:22 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Actually, sam, it works for me now.
| 10:39:26 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Except that I get random failures.
| 10:39:31 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Dan P, great slides!
| 10:39:51 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Be hat + phantomjs is great (even on windows)
| 10:39:55 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| tim - Oh, it works now? Are there instructions? Thanks for reassurance, sorry I should be less sarcastic then
| 10:40:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yes, nice slides!
| 10:40:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Sarcasm is good.
| 10:40:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://gist.github.com/danpoltawski/8036489
| 10:40:33 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Thats David Monllao serving up a paella
| 10:40:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I really ought to copy that to docs.
| 10:40:44 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| LOL
| 10:40:50 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Great pic lol
| 10:40:51 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Looks good.
| 10:40:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Paella!
| 10:41:00 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| So we want to fix coding style in the line that happened to be edited for another purpose - e.g. https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43040 (I think that's a good idea, why not)
| 10:41:13 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also that's exactly what behat code looks like
| 10:41:21 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Aparup's home rules
| 10:41:26 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| screenshot - i like that
| 10:42:46 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Or have no wwwroot
| 10:43:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Damyon: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43246#comment-265751
| 10:43:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Quite a long time == overnight.
| 10:43:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK 4 or 6 hours for me.
| 10:44:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| on windows?
| 10:44:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Yes.
| 10:44:15 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| About the same for me.
| 10:44:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Is that a subtle hint about how to bribe the integrators.
| 10:44:33 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| ?
| 10:44:36 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Thanks tim, will look first thing tomorrow
| 10:44:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| There was a problem found in Linux with ext4, that our tests took something like 10x longer than ext3 â€¦. perhaps someone else can elaborate
| 10:45:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (I know it sounds crazy)
| 10:45:20 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There are fs options you can add to ext4 mount points to make them run a lot faster.
| 10:45:43 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I missed the thing about docblocks/backports - is there a url for this policy?
| 10:45:52 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| AFAIK no-one here found them
| 10:45:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| sam, yes.
| 10:46:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Scroll back.
| 10:46:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oh sorry
| 10:46:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Reject
| 10:46:47 PM
|-
| jfilip
| This is what I use for ext4 on my workstation -- rw,noatime,seclabel,nobarrier,nouser_xattr,errors=remount-ro
| 10:46:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| thanks Justin, hope that helps someone
| 10:47:18 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| i heard about a blackbook Dan
| 10:47:33 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| the bit about doc blocks in backports doesn't seem to be mentioned in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting unless I am missing something
| 10:47:52 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hopefully the code freeze will be more relaxed for you this time
| 10:47:54 PM
|-
| jfilip
| But, yeah, when I first switched to ext4 a year or two ago I did notice a dramatic slowdown until I did some digging for options to speed it up.
| 10:48:04 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Sounds like the new MySQl
| 10:48:30 PM
|-
| jfilip
| So, is the code freeze for 2.7 going to be a code freeze or more of a light frost?
| 10:48:56 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| We discuss in I team and agree, then someone has to update the doc. It will happen soon
| 10:49:01 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Very cold.
| 10:49:09 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Soon(TM)
| 10:49:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I missed the key number. Is this 2.7 or 2.6 that will be LTS?
| 10:49:43 PM
|-
| jfilip
| No more integrating non-bug fix work the week or two before scheduled release?
| 10:49:47 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| 2.7
| 10:50:19 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No integrating half done things the week before freeze
| 10:50:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Oh. Woldn't it be better to do risky infrastrucutre chagnes after the LTR?
| 10:50:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| jfilip: we are very firm about it in the integration team for this release
| 10:50:55 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Damyon: *cheers*
| 10:51:00 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Will the LTS version need backports of all bugs?
| 10:51:20 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| If it's based on usage/installation, you'll never be able to drop it
| 10:51:31 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| people will always avoid upgrades unless they have to, look at WinXP
| 10:51:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Dan Poltawski just wonders about alll.. the bug fixes
| 10:52:00 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Is no there a distinction on which bugs?
| 10:52:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| because there are LOADS of bugfixes and some are not very serious and it's been broken forever
| 10:52:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| IMO, the important thing is security and serious bugfixes
| 10:52:40 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| OK
| 10:52:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| some of the nigly bugs people can livewith
| 10:52:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (and often they can cause small changes in behaviour)
| 10:53:04 PM
|-
| jfilip
| New JIRA label for lts bugs? =)
| 10:53:05 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| was it mentioned how long roughly it'd be LTS'd for?
| 10:53:25 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| 3 yrs
| 10:53:44 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (just echoing Martin for chat
| 10:53:49 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| So, 2.7, 2.13, 2.19 ?
| 10:53:49 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| thanks sam
| 10:53:54 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| -1 to lag
| 10:54:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its like prerecording the meeting, and then watching it again and discusisng it
| 10:54:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (in fact that would prob work better)
| 10:54:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also chat not archived with video
| 10:54:58 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also Google
| 10:55:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yeah, the streaming is great, its just the interaction which is a problem
| 10:55:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it's designed for broadcasting really
| 10:55:52 PM
|-
| jfilip
| It's nice that Hangouts on Air have 720p video now. It makes a shared browser window actually readable. =)
| 10:56:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (wait for the lag, michael :P)
| 10:56:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I'd prefer open source and BBB but it was just falling short with larger numbers
| 10:56:15 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| Offtopic: Looking to Michael in the darkness... and the reflection on his glasses... do you know F.lux? It works great: http://justgetflux.com
| 10:56:15 PM
|-
| jfilip
| +1 to f.lux
| 10:56:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| F.lux is wonderful
| 10:56:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| =)
| 10:56:36 PM
|-
| danbennett
| GoToMeeting at all Michael? just a thought
| 10:56:53 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| i think that's about cvhanging screen brightness
| 10:56:54 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Not free tho to be fair
| 10:57:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Needs to cope with 100 people
| 10:57:11 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Michael, we've got someone on our team doing a personal project to research shared communication / meeting systems. If something interesting comes out of it we'll share the findings.
| 10:57:18 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| we could code one ourself! I just built a voice recorder using html5, it's totally reliable*.
| 10:57:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| * I am lying
| 10:57:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Maybe a Moodle video conference plugin? lol
| 10:57:42 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| no f.lux is for your screen brightness ..
| 10:57:44 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| we coudl stream to youtube on top of whatever we do, no?
| 10:58:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| btw mic unplugged michael?
| 10:58:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oops audio cut off? or just me? oh it's back
| 10:58:13 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Smoke signals and really powerful telescopes.
| 10:58:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| back now
| 10:58:23 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| now yes
| 10:58:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| cut off again
| 10:58:31 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| back
| 10:58:32 PM
|-
| sam marshall
|
| 10:58:33 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| mic gone soft
| 10:58:37 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Seems the mic has some kind of crazy limiter lol
| 10:58:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lol
| 10:58:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oops, cut out again..
| 10:58:47 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| v quiet
| 10:58:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah
| 10:58:48 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Over to yuo...
| 10:59:16 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| NSA
| 10:59:17 PM
|-
| Matthew Spurrier
| jfilip: i certainly wouldn't recommend using nobarrier, you lose power, you have the potential to lose a lot of data.. also noatime,nodiratime are risky for auditing/security purposes
| 10:59:26 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Too many torrents
| 10:59:34 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Matt, it's just my workstation on a battery backup.
| 10:59:57 PM
|-
| jfilip
| It's not a server. =)
| 11:00:06 PM
|-
| Matthew Spurrier
| yah, just pointing it out, just in case ;)
| 11:00:14 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Yeah, you're correct. For something that is "important" or might go down, poorly, those options won't really work.
| 11:00:39 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Nigel McNie (former Catalyst/Mahara) was working on a VC type solution. I'll ping him and find out
| 11:00:46 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| BBB had a new release
| 11:00:58 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Audio is breaking up for me. Am I alone?
| 11:01:19 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| audio seems fine here
| 11:01:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Do they have an Epic for this in the tracker?
| 11:02:00 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| half of the gradebook proposal comes from David Mudrakâ€¦
| 11:03:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For the Aus cahgnes?
| 11:03:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Would be good to group them with an Epic.
| 11:03:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| You can add it to the meeting notes later.
| 11:03:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK
| 11:04:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Rex asked the questions
| 11:05:04 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I've been booted and can't get back in. That's telling for Hangouts.
| 11:05:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| there have been 2 this week..
| 11:06:13 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| no major changes expected, just more improvements
| 11:06:20 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| bootstrapwood is coming back!
| 11:06:26 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| apart from the two this week, Petr?
| 11:06:33 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I asked earlier if we ahd to convert events in our add-ons when we ugprade to 2.6,and Petr said wait for 2.7.
| 11:06:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Once you go bootstrap you never go booback
| 11:06:35 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Random question: what's up with the namespace stuff in code - are we supposed to use that for all new core code in 2.7? If so is it documented?
| 11:06:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Sam: MDLSITE-2549
| 11:07:02 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2549 - Rules for namespacing.V: 0, W: 7, Type: Bug, Assignee: Dan Poltawski, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 11:07:03 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14661 https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14662
| 11:07:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No docs in the 2.6 release notes to explain the events changes.
| 11:07:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Thanks Dan! So, it is not yet defined? OK
| 11:07:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| yeah, I've put GS there
| 11:08:03 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=239646 Prateek is on as well
| 11:08:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| MDL-31989
| 11:08:18 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31989 - Global Search 2.V: 48, W: 56, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Prateek Sachan, Priority: Major, Status: Open
| 11:08:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| sam marshall: i'm afraid its a bit undefined yep
| 11:08:29 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| What is the link to the Moodle Docs?
| 11:08:34 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| For new features, will they still be tested/supported on base?
| 11:08:34 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its another one on the integration team list
| 11:08:58 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| dan - Let's say I start building the conditional availability changes tomorrow, am I okay to not learn how to use namespaces? Is the question.
| 11:09:06 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| If its in core still, then yes
| 11:09:07 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Martin Dougiamas: Reload the wiki page, someone added a line
| 11:09:09 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Rex, that came up earlier: yes. New UI changes should be tested on Base and Clean.
| 11:09:09 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| Another random question: what's happening (if anything) with survey 2.0?
| 11:09:17 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I found it hard to believe!
| 11:09:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| I really hate people "registering" words like "task" and others without any control. We should not allow first-to-land-wins liberty there. But look for a limited vocabulary. (after thinking about it like 10^6 times)
| 11:09:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Ther is a link to the tracker issue, but htat is all.
| 11:09:43 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| More important than name spaces is auto loading, which is great
| 11:09:48 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading
| 11:09:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Shall I create a MDLSITE?
| 11:10:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For docs for how to upgrade your add-on?
| 11:10:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| damyon - auto loading used to work without namespaces, not sure it still does or not
| 11:10:18 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Hi Aparup, Tomasz!
| 11:10:21 PM
|-
| jfilip
| MDL-39797 - New events infrastructure 
https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.6_release_notes#For_developers:_API_changes
| 11:10:22 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39797 - META: Events 2.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Epic, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Closed
| 11:10:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| just tell petr to stop removing dev_docs_required off his issues with 1 line
| 11:10:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| That is system spect, not advice for add-on authros.
| 11:10:26 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (Dan - thanks for doc)
| 11:10:49 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Auto loading works with or without
| 11:10:53 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi Prateek
| 11:10:57 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Oooh pretty new homepage
| 11:12:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| i like the colours
| 11:12:33 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Everything is pretty good.
| 11:13:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| MDLSITE-2710
| 11:13:18 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2710 - The Moodle 2.6 release notes need to make it clear to add-on authors how to upgrade their plugins for the events changes.V: 0, W: 0, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 11:13:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thanks all
| 11:14:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks everyone sorry for the people who stayed up late...
| 11:14:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Great stuff!
| 11:14:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, all.
| 11:14:37 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| next dev mtg?
| 11:14:40 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Cya
| 11:14:41 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| 3 months
| 11:14:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| night all
| 11:14:45 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| byeee
| 11:14:49 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| roger gdnite!
| 11:14:53 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| 2am is a perfectly acceptable sleep time :P
| 11:14:58 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| bye all
| 11:15:02 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| rave!
| 11:15:02 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| sam - was this the music you wanted to end on?
| 11:15:04 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Thanks everyone - have a great yesterday
| 11:15:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| off to find an air conditioner now
| 11:15:05 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Bye!
| 11:15:10 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I need a burger.
| 11:15:15 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Perfect timing with the music
| 11:15:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| 
| 11:15:22 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Thanks all
| 11:15:53 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| sam: david fixed the cygwin problem
| 11:17:20 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Bye, thanks everyone
| 11:17:21 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| and we need help from newbies identifiying the gaps in the intructions
| 11:17:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its practiaclly the same as phpunit in terms of setup, except that unlike phpunit it needs a webserver and browser server
| 11:20:04 PM
|}
</div>

If you have something you'd like to correct on this page, please [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/index.php?title=Developer_meeting_January_2014&action=edit edit this page] or contact [http://moodle.org/user/profile.php?id=381842 Michael d].

Developer meeting January 2014

2014-01-23T07:40:43Z

Xymoodle: Replaced video to one with the concurrent chat log on screen

[[Developer meetings]] > January 2014 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2014&month=1&day=21&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 21 January 2014]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlehq/videos Moodle HQ YouTube channel] (changed since last meeting)
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we focused on Moodle development happening outside Moodle HQ.

The meeting was streamed live on YouTube with chat through the regular Dev chat room and comments on Twitter.

== Meeting Video ==

<mediaplayer>http://youtu.be/o5G0nPzGpZI</mediaplayer>

== Meeting Notes ==
=== Possible future changes to Conditional Activities (Sam Marshall, OU) ===
* More flexible, plug-able conditions
* Better access through groupings
* Better interface, lean and mean
* No docs yet, spec and issues coming

=== Quiz editing changes (Tim Hunt, Colin Chamber, Mahmoud Kassaei, OU) ===
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987 Issue], [https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180 Discussion]
* Dependency between questions as a user works through a quiz
* Improving the interface to make it simpler, similar to course page editing, which people are familiar with.
* Possibly a new "combinable" question type that allows something similar to cloze, but with a simpler interface.
* Possibly other OU question types coming to core. It would be good if the community could provide feedback on what's in the Plugins Directory currently.

=== Moodle 2.7 progress ===
==== Prototypes site (Martin Dougiamas) ====
* [http://prototypes.moodle.net prototypes.moodle.net]
* A site for early development to gather feedback
* Projects currently there include navigation, editor replacement, forum changes, outcomes...

==== Clean as default theme (Jérôme Mouneyrac) ====
* [https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097 Notes]
* Resolve open bugs
* Default theme on new install
* Increase configurability, requires ability to compile LESS on-the-fly.
* New navigation is being considered
* Adding an element library
* Allow people to add bootswatches
* It intended that we will move most themes to Plugins Directory (not Standard, Clean or base themes)
* Bootstrap 3 has been considered and won't be adopted yet

==== Editor replacement (Damyon Wiese) ====
* [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7 Docs]
* TinyMCE3 is out of support
* Editor is critical part of Moodle and has huge impact on user experience
* Editor search narrowed down to TinyMCE4, CKEditor and Atto.
* Prototypes were put up and feedback requested.
* Tending towards Atto, with a CKEditor in the Plugins Directory for those who want it.

==== Old Assignment removal (Damyon Wiese) ====
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952 Issue]
* The old assignment has been removed and on upgrade instances of the old assignment will be converted to the new.
* If you are using an old assignment type that is not represented in the new assignment you will have to install the old assignment module from the Plugins Directory

==== Outcomes (Andrew Davis) ====
* [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 Issue], [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification Docs]
* A lot of work done on Outcomes before 2.6 that didn't make it into the release.
* We're reviewing Totara and Elis to see what features are needed overall.

==== New logging (Rajesh Taneja) ====
* New events system is in place
* Old logging calls are being converted to events
* More information captured than previous logging
* Performance is an issue, with more events being captured
** Initiatives to optimise DB queries with a single batch insert at the end of a page load.
* Ability to create new observers to reduce the reliance on the log table for real-time analytics
* Logging system is more plugable.
** Potential to push logs to external database

=== Moodle Mobile update (Juan Leyva) ===
* New version of app coming soon (fixing issues with new devices with Android 4.4 and old devices with Android 2.1 and 2.3)
* Potential to use the app from the desktop (See https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop)
* PUSH notifications is top priority

=== Integration update (Dan Poltawski) ===
* Pre-checking of issues by CiBot (Continuous integration bot) automated checks on changes before they are submitted to integration (waiting for integration, peer review or with label "cime") ([https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 Issue])
* Testing requirements
** PHPUnit or Behat tests required for changes
* Behat improvements
** Working on Linux and Windows. Firefox is the preferred browser. Chrome is being improved. IE is somewhat working and Safari... ([https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Browsers Docs])
** You can get automatic screenshots when a test fails ($CFG->behat_screenshots_path: [http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=blob;f=config-dist.php#l659 link])
** Parallel Behat testing ([https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39752 issue])
* Misc
** Specific rules for [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting backporting]
** Please be aware of the [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Schedule weekly integration schedule]

=== Long term support (Martin Dougiamas) ===
* 2.7 is going to be a long-term release that will be supported for longer (3 years instead of 18months)
* Backports will be required to backport bug-fixes to the LTS release

=== A better video conferencing solution for Gen Dev meetings? (Michael de Raadt) ===
* GoToMeeting (no free)
* Need more suggestions

=== Questions ===

Q. What are the plans in 2.7 for Gradebook improvements? 
A. Minor bugs being fixed. Three major projects happening, but not going into 2.7. (See MDL-25423)

Q. Will the base theme no longer receive updates or be actively worked on? 
A. It will be kept for long term support and fixed for bugs, but may go away after a number of versions.

Q. Anymore changes to the event system? We want to start planning/scoping out analytics/alerts using the new event system in 2.6, but don't want to progress if more changes are expected. 
A. Mostly stable now.

Q. Global Search? 
A. Code has been written. Waiting for code review for core.

Q. Any plans to actually treat the code freeze deadline as a code freeze for 2.7? 
A. That freeze should be colder than last time.

== Live Attendees ==
Adam Olley, Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Bennett, Dan Poltawski, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy Lafuente, Eric Merrill, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jason Hardin, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Justin Filip, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Kirsty, Marina Glancy, Mark Johnson, Martin Dougiamas, Martín Langhoff, Mary Cooch, Matthew Spurrier, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Moodle Bot, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kabalin, S Bourget, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshall, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, XY Ng

== Meeting chat log ==
<div style="height:300px;overflow:auto;">
{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| 123
| 9:02:39 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| ping
| 9:02:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| testing
| 9:02:43 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Hi, all.
| 9:02:44 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Good morning
| 9:02:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| commiserations sam
| 9:03:03 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| what is it there sam h?
| 9:03:03 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| hello
| 9:03:06 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| 2am now
| 9:03:09 PM
|-
| Barbara Ramiro
| Hi
| 9:03:16 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| awesome. going out raving after the meeting?
| 9:03:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Did someone say rave?
| 9:03:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| techno techno techno techno]#
| 9:03:46 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| unce unce unce
| 9:03:48 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| If someone is using a screen reader here they're probably getting excited!
| 9:04:15 PM
|-
| danbennett
| brrrrr wubwubwub do doo doo brrwub
| 9:04:28 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Hello
| 9:04:42 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Hi
| 9:04:50 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Hello
| 9:04:57 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| hey, by end of the meeting you can play the 'it's 4 o'clock in the morning and it's starting to get light' happy hardcore song, I love that one.
| 9:04:59 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Yes! :D
| 9:05:10 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| is the link to youtubepasted here?
| 9:06:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
|
| 9:06:31 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Now it is
| 9:06:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I can get chat on my iPad burr some reason Adium is borked
| 9:06:41 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| It's live
| 9:07:01 PM
|-
| danbennett
| You're on! *waves*
| 9:07:31 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| we can see you
| 9:07:33 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Moodle Meetings: you're on my radar
| 9:07:42 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Sam just said responded to bug reports
| 9:08:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Time the lag
| 9:08:59 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Now
| 9:09:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
| now
| 9:09:27 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| oh wow
| 9:10:28 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| "or"/not
| 9:10:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (do we do introductions/his?)
| 9:11:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Tim you can be next if you want
| 9:11:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I need to open some browser tabs
| 9:11:48 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| sorry Im late
| 9:12:17 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| pidgin doesn't like my laptop
| 9:12:28 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| loving it
| 9:12:57 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I don't know where to comment about this..
| 9:13:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| but we've got a few things which want pluggable versions of the same thigns now
| 9:13:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| like badges
| 9:13:19 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Is there a tracker ticket for these changes?
| 9:13:27 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| although now i'm thinking, does badges allow activity level awards
| 9:13:40 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK, I think I am ready.
| 9:14:12 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Good [insert appropriate time of day / night here] everyone.
| 9:16:11 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I thought badges used conditional activities
| 9:17:06 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes, performance will be tough
| 9:17:59 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Dan P: +1 for trying not to do same things in paralel
| 9:18:09 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| I can imagine some open courseware sites that would love conditional courses with the same sorts of rules too
| 9:18:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hi from Tim at the OU in Milton Keynes.
| 9:18:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Hi, Dan from Moodle HQ, Perth Australia
| 9:18:43 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Hi, my name is David
| 9:18:54 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Hi, Davo, Synergy Learning (but based in Sheffield)
| 9:18:59 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Hi from the Netherlands!
| 9:19:06 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| Hi, from Jenny at the OU in Milton Keynes
| 9:19:06 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Hello
| 9:19:08 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| Hi, Tomek Muras here
| 9:19:10 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| Hi from Albuquerque
| 9:19:10 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Hi from Belgium
| 9:19:11 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Hi, Adrian from Moodle HQ, Perth
| 9:19:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Hello! Dan from HowToMoodle (UK)
| 9:19:13 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Hi, Sam Hemelryk from Nelson, New Zealand
| 9:19:15 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Jason from HQ
| 9:19:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| sam at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK (as hopefully you noticed from logo on all my slides
| 9:19:21 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Hi, Adam from NetSpot
| 9:19:24 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| Hi, Jerome from Moodle HQ, Perth
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| kirsty
| Hi from Kirsty at HowToMoodle
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Hi from Amy Groshek, Minnesota, US
| 9:19:25 PM
|-
| Barbara Ramiro
| Hi from HQ
| 9:19:27 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Hello, Rex from Los Angeles, CA, USA
| 9:19:32 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| hi from HQ
| 9:19:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi, Aparup Banerjee, moodle HQ perth
| 9:19:40 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
| Hi from Moodle HQ outpost in Preston Lancs
| 9:19:41 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Hi, David Mudrak, Czech
| 9:19:42 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Hi, Steve from New Hampshire USA
| 9:19:46 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Hi, Prateek Sachan here.
| 9:19:48 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| hi, Helen in Belgium
| 9:20:04 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| lol, I liked the 'what the hell are we doing' there
| 9:21:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Haha
| 9:21:36 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming.
| 9:21:37 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas waves from home in Perth
| 9:21:50 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| wow, sam my time lag is even longer than yours!
| 9:21:51 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| so can you define dependency between questions on the question level (so in question bank and not just in the quiz)
| 9:23:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40987
| 9:24:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=231180
| 9:24:33 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| error at moodlehq
| 9:25:54 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| restarting
| 9:25:57 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| back now
| 9:26:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| you look to be back Moodle Meetings
| 9:26:24 PM
|-
| jfilip
| I just heard Michael ask everyone to say hi and where they are from. Wow... the lag is going to make asking questions here really difficult.
| 9:26:25 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| snap
| 9:26:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://github.com/moodleou/moodle-qtype_combined
| 9:27:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| jfilip: can you think of your questions in advance?
| 9:27:25 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch
|
| 9:27:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| I just reloaded the G+ event page so hopefully it's less lagged now?
| 9:28:45 PM
|-
| danbennett
| We're looking at tims Github screen if that helps jfilip
| 9:29:09 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| http://www.open.edu/openlearnworks/course/view.php?id=1643
| 9:29:18 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, it looks like you can scroll ahead in the timeline on the YouTube player so I think I'm up much closer to "live".
| 9:30:23 PM
|-
| danbennett
| If you click the text saying "live" it should forward you right to it as well. (red dot for watching live, grey for behind)
| 9:30:51 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Yes, it's got the red dot showing "Live" since I scrolled ahead. Perfect.
| 9:31:29 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Drag and drop is tough on screen readers
| 9:32:02 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| +1 on the DnD questions. We love them here.
| 9:32:29 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| There are aria guideline for drag and drop. They are complex though
| 9:33:11 PM
|-
| jfilip
| We could gather some numbers on usage of qtypes on our customer's sites for contrib types.
| 9:33:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lesson: with a decent ui..
| 9:33:51 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Using_the_question_engine_from_module
| 9:34:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| can we force the camera on martin?
| 9:36:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| michael, mute microphone please? it keeps switching to you
| 9:36:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks
| 9:37:12 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I muted him
| 9:37:12 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| we have
| 9:37:20 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| we don't see your screen martin
| 9:38:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I do
| 9:38:11 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| i do
| 9:38:25 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| fyi, to stop the screen jumping around you can click on whoever you want it to stay on. click their thumbnail at the bottom of the hangout.
| 9:39:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| HQ I hope you are remembering to direct the camera for the recording
| 9:39:47 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Whers the beers HQ?
| 9:39:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| omg no beers
| 9:40:25 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (it's super hot here, I could really use one)
| 9:40:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| that's a lot of crazy people at HQ ... you know you have to travel home after this ... unless the tenants upstairs can be bribed ...
| 9:40:55 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| TimH just popped on screen for me (again)
| 9:41:35 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43784
| 9:41:37 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eea9oQj1bihpWpsYJGstX_CASLBFF7N51M6DLquixK0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2a33bfb2a_097
| 9:41:38 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I have beer. White rabbit.
| 9:41:59 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| Martin -21C here. (opposite of super hot)
| 9:42:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| i've got a flask.. of hot water and mint tea..
| 9:42:24 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| yay automatic less compiler in core!
| 9:43:02 PM
|-
| XY Ng
| martin: yep we are directing the camera
| 9:43:15 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Please stop talking about the element library, and get the code in core!!!
| 9:43:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
|
| 9:43:38 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| (We need elements first ;))
| 9:43:54 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No, release early and release often.
| 9:44:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDL-36558
| 9:44:16 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36558 - Add element library to moodle.V: 11, W: 22, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Sam Hemelryk, Priority: Critical, Status: Development in progress
| 9:44:17 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Get the basic strucutre, there, then people can add to it.
| 9:44:18 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Not sure if it was mentioned, but does the LESS compiler mean we'll get rid of compiled LESS css files from being tracked at all?
| 9:44:48 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| jay for bootswatches!
| 9:44:58 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| +1 release early n often n om
| 9:45:01 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes it would, they would go in moodledata
| 9:45:24 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| Awesome
| 9:45:31 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Ooo i likey
| 9:45:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
|
| 9:45:47 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| compiled less is a pain when cherry picking :P
| 9:46:07 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| ^
| 9:46:26 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| does it do less compiling when setting the bootswatch?
| 9:46:27 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| No, this is just a POC
| 9:46:37 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| But it could (should?)
| 9:46:51 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| custom css styles go in moodledata too then i guess?
| 9:47:04 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| I think they already do
| 9:47:26 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| the do indeed
| 9:47:40 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| custom css styles should go into the themes
| 9:47:41 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| *they
| 9:47:49 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 
| 9:48:05 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| ah! here at last! took some work to get empathy working here
| 9:48:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| hey hi
| 9:48:26 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Welcome.
| 9:48:33 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| I have been enjoying the show over breakfast
| 9:48:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| try and look at the agenda and ask your questions 2min in advance
| 9:48:39 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| POC = Point Of Care?
| 9:48:54 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Proof of concept
| 9:49:06 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| (isn't that right? lol)
| 9:49:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| y
| 9:49:22 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Not Piece Of Cake?
| 9:49:28 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| The cake is a lie adrian. A lie!!!!!!
| 9:49:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Nano, Pico, Atto
| 9:51:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Are we really, really, sure we want to maintain our own editor?
| 9:51:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| +1 about text editor being important. I'd be interested in how well it works in narrow width, that's a problem with current..
| 9:51:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| tim that is the question that is not decided
| 9:52:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| but i have to say I'm tending that way after lots of thinking
| 9:52:44 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the greatest benefit of maintaining our own editor is that we never have to worry about upstream changes, abandonment, and the featureset is always what we want. The worst part of that is that we would have to do the work ourselves
| 9:54:41 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| and there is no community around the editor already
| 9:54:57 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (I am suspicious about all the maths comments.. I know its important, but I also know the maths editor community are very vocal.. have to balance that to average moodle user who doesn't know what moodle.org is)
| 9:54:58 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| ^
| 9:55:10 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Which of these editors have the options configurable, and how accessible is the config? Currently we are trying to alter the options for the editor in the db with an install script. Giving people options is nice, but then they complain when their theme doesn't apply to the text they've borked in the text editorâ€¦
| 9:55:19 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| maths is pretty much the same for all editors in that we need to do some custom work for all
| 9:55:34 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| we asked the survey takers to test the maths editor ...
| 9:55:47 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| there was a license issue with dragmath as well
| 9:55:54 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| The other thing you need to consider with the editor
| 9:55:56 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| is the 3rd party plugins that use it currently
| 9:56:02 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Dragmath and things like voice / audio recording in the editor are very popular 3rd party plugins for our customers.
| 9:56:07 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| and all of the support you will need to have for them
| 9:56:09 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| amygroshek: they all have cionfigurable options
| 9:56:15 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| drag math also works not at all on mobile
| 9:56:15 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| there are several 3rd party math plugins
| 9:56:17 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| atto is the easiest to configure already
| 9:56:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| and I think TinyMCE 4 is the next easiest
| 9:56:39 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| All 3rd party plugins would need to be re-written regardless.
| 9:56:41 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| followed very very closely by CKEditor
| 9:56:51 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| sort of
| 9:56:52 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| some editors will already have plugins for them
| 9:56:58 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| benefit of a standard os editor
| 9:57:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| CK has lots, that's the main advantage of it
| 9:57:11 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| my plugin should work for Tinymce in all innstances of it
| 9:57:18 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| atto i have to make a plugin specifically to moodle
| 9:57:40 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Atto will cost us a lot more
| 9:57:43 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Jason Hardin: some will have plugins that can be modified to work, yes, but not all of them can be taken and made to work with Moodle without considerable effort
| 9:57:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| We have a few editor plugins at the OU (biggest is our maths one). Also need to turn off standard things that don't work well for us... *shrugs*
| 9:58:18 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Use Atto. It has less options. = less theme support problems for amy.
| 9:58:19 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Atto is close to what would work on mobile (limited set of options, neat interface)
| 9:58:21 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I'm not that bothered about updating the plugins if we don't have to do it instantly though, it says on that wiki page it'll keep old tinymce for a few versions
| 9:58:41 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?
| 9:58:47 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Just one thing about simple editor - I 100% agree but our users are probably going to go ape if we take all their features (tables, colour, stupid crap they shouldn't use) from them...
| 9:59:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For Moodle, the 1/3 row switching is very nice.
| 9:59:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| not students, but tutors etc
| 9:59:33 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (editor for mobile is stupid IMO. Its going to be built into the mobile os)
| 9:59:44 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Sam, educate them =)
| 9:59:46 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| Dan P: I agree, different editor (or none) for mobile
| 10:00:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| jfilip - tried that before
| 10:00:08 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| just try and edit a line on a mobile phone with the standrard iphone/android interfaces
| 10:00:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its painful, and I imagine they will innovate with their oses
| 10:00:29 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| any moodle editor used with conflcit with it when they change
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Would implementing Atto put in in the same situation we saw with Moodle 1.x with Htmlarea editor?
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| dan - okay but how do you do, I dunno, insert an image together with upload into moodle filesystem? that needs custom buttons etc
| 10:00:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
|
| 10:00:52 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Evernote has a really nice mobile editing interface, you can push a "keyboard" button to remove text input and replace that part of your screen with formatting options. It's really smart and easy to use.
| 10:01:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Stephen, the opposite. HTMLarea was third-pary and it died.
| 10:01:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| If we build atto ourself, it won't die for as long as we use it.
| 10:01:34 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| jfilip: is that html5 only or in an app?
| 10:01:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| AFAIK, it's in the app. I've never used their Android app before but that's how the editor works in iOS. It's super handy on a phone screen.
| 10:02:06 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| I woukld recommend talking to the accesisblity grou[
| 10:02:36 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| is atto liscensed?
| 10:02:39 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| about how costly that will be
| 10:02:40 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| is that where the cost is?
| 10:02:46 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Jason, Martin posted there this morning.
| 10:02:48 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto
| 10:03:17 PM
|-
| jfilip
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7
| 10:03:27 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Thanks
| 10:03:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| RIP mod/assignment
| 10:04:18 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas has another small minute of silence
| 10:04:36 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Tracker issue for the mod_assignment removal?
| 10:05:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33952
| 10:05:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| thx
| 10:05:48 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| On the accessibility group i did see the email breifly this morning. It was 4;30 am when i got up to get to this meeting. I still think it is better to talk to them in the next meeting
| 10:06:14 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (lol at gang sign)
| 10:06:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| will mod_assignment live on as an add-on at all ?
| 10:06:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There were two questions that went along with Jerome's agenda item which I don't believe were addressed, are those going to come up later?
| 10:06:50 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| the editor has been mentioned in previous meetings but I don't know that the group has been focused on the topic.
| 10:06:54 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah in moodle.org/plugins
| 10:06:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| isn't it there already? Should be
| 10:07:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| can't add 2.7 plugins yet
| 10:07:14 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Not yet.
| 10:07:24 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| HQ: change the feed view
| 10:07:33 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| What dan said
| 10:07:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| roger
| 10:07:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Is there a wiki page for this latest outcomes work?
| 10:09:02 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| The youtube feed is still looking at Damyon and gang
| 10:09:04 PM
|-
| jfilip
| ( / research / etc. )
| 10:09:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| where are you listening to Eric?
| 10:09:17 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| It is a shame, I do not know (recognise) anyone of those 7 who is sitting at the table, can someone list their names
| 10:09:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Raj is with Damyon
| 10:09:23 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| jfilip: Not as yet.
| 10:09:25 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| MDL-40230
| 10:09:27 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 - Integrate Outcomes stage 2 into core.V: 3, W: 34, Type: Bug, Assignee: Mark Nielsen, Priority: Blocker, Status: Reopened
| 10:09:28 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| jfilip: basically we didn't make any decision about hiding/removing themes . I think the best it's to go to each issues. About bootstrap3 it's most likely we won't have it in 2.7.
| 10:09:29 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, Jerome.
| 10:09:59 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| mouneyrac: Do you have the link to that document we made, including the BS3 details?
| 10:10:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Ruslan Kabalin: testing my short term memory.. Jerome, XY, Rosie, Raj, David Mo, Ankit, Damyon
| 10:10:23 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Jerome, XY, Rossie, Raj, DavidMo,
| 10:10:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| See MDL-40177 about Bootstrap 3
| 10:10:33 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes it's in the document I lined and in the issue too
| 10:10:34 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40177 - Update to Bootstrap v3.V: 7, W: 19, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 10:10:34 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| I was late
| 10:10:35 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| thanks
| 10:10:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I still have this serious concern about the logging stuff. Look at the diff stat for https://github.com/markn86/moodle/compare/master...MDL-40063_master "Showing 35 changed files with 1,599 additions and 35 deletions. " This is a change that bring no user-visible benefit. How to we justify that huge lines-of-code count? Surely this is a clear sign that the design if flawed.
| 10:11:09 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40063 - Replace add_to_log with an event trigger - mod_quiz.V: 0, W: 4, Type: Task, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Reopened
| 10:11:10 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ktkigIsJrxcqPeHWcDdRANA1072JVZZ0azg0INo6v48/edit#heading=h.mhopzjiavfyi
| 10:11:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Petr is off-screen. Lucky.
| 10:11:22 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| that's the bootstrap3 link
| 10:11:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| jfilip, see https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40230 and https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Outcomes_Specification for the outcomes system from Moodlerooms. A document detailing what features we want based on examining the moodlerooms system as well as Totara and Elis will appear in the next few days.
| 10:11:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Logging is eventually about analytics and notifications, real-time
| 10:12:19 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Liking the look of this!
| 10:12:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| logging looks nice in the UI, but we have a potential concern with performance as it's a massive cost in the current system already - especially if there are more things logged. (I.e. at the moment a typical student page view logs 1 thing - is that still true?)
| 10:12:33 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| We store more information about an event, that's true
| 10:13:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Could we change it to chuck it into a local file or something instead, for instance?
| 10:13:25 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (with custom logging plugin)
| 10:13:30 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah sure
| 10:13:33 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| But you can set up not to store some
| 10:13:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| ah OK, single insert sounds good
| 10:13:38 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Andrew, thanks.
| 10:13:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| the profile of Moodle will change. Some things will be slower, but some things will be faster
| 10:14:01 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDL-34055
| 10:14:02 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34055 - Database function for fast bulk inserts.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Major, Status: Waiting for peer review
| 10:14:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| ok this sounds good - thanks. Just had concern because it's probably one of the slowest things at present.
| 10:14:20 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| What are the different types? You mentioned "Educational", what are the others?
| 10:14:34 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| well yeah that's why building analytics on top of it is a bad idea
| 10:14:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (old logs)
| 10:14:48 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I am not sure that I am convinced by the 'it is pluggable so we can do antyhing' argument. editors are pluggable, so we now have a big debate about which editor to implement, and a lot of work to do it.
| 10:14:56 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (At OU we don't do anything that reads log table I think - we've disabled all those things.)
| 10:15:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| you can ignore our editor :D
| 10:15:13 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No, you can';t What we really want is one editor that works for everyone. If that is possible.
| 10:15:34 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| *nods* got it, thanks.
| 10:15:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Plugins with special needs can listen direct to events instead of parsing logs
| 10:16:16 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Another benefit is ability for reports NOT to use log table
| 10:16:22 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Grr I'm always slow on this iPad
| 10:16:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Great - looks good.
| 10:16:41 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Petr is surprisingly quiet
| 10:17:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks for answering all the questions
| 10:17:46 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Sorry, you answered my point?
| 10:18:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I don't think so.
| 10:18:17 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Editor?
| 10:18:43 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| tim - the editor one or the thousands of lines of code one?
| 10:18:51 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Which point Tim?
| 10:18:59 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| SO, to conver the add-to-log calls in the quiz, 35 lines of existing code are repalced by 1600 lines of new code. How is that anything other than the sign of a totally broken API?
| 10:19:04 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Lines of code in logging
| 10:19:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| yes we see it
| 10:19:12 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes
| 10:19:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| no browser yet
| 10:19:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I see the browser
| 10:19:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| ah got it now
| 10:20:01 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Perhaps some backend folks want to answer why the API is not broken
| 10:20:03 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| It is important to have more lines to have reliable, constant information
| 10:20:04 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| or quiz is broken
| 10:20:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No trolling please
| 10:20:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| It is important to have reliable, constant information. I am not convince that requires thousands of lines of code.
| 10:20:50 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Sorry about that.
| 10:20:56 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Moodel Meetings, woudl you like to say who you are?
| 10:21:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Martin Dougiamas never liked all the classes nonsense
| 10:21:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| I also have doubts about new logging - I'm not sure what are we really getting here in return for more complexity. What kind of real life issue are we solving?
| 10:21:36 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Most of that is class declarations and unit tests.
| 10:21:37 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Me too
| 10:21:45 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| yes breaking up here too
| 10:21:45 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Wait, Tim are you saying that 35 lines that were previously executed to write a log now goes through 1600 lines or 1600 lines is just the total of the patch?
| 10:21:48 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| yes for us too
| 10:21:49 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| making quite nice bell type noises
| 10:21:51 PM
|-
| danbennett
| here too
| 10:22:14 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Rajesh: We need to have some framework which can check adde to event
| 10:22:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lines of code is a stupid metric for anything.
| 10:22:17 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| bad audio here too
| 10:22:20 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| I'm loosing sound
| 10:22:23 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| here to
| 10:22:24 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| breaking up
| 10:22:24 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| yep
| 10:22:29 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| speaker needs a cat5
| 10:22:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Also, lines of source code doesn't translate to interpreted opcode being executed.
| 10:22:53 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Yes, events are more complex than addtolog but add to log was adhoc and not guaranteed to be useful
| 10:23:17 PM
|-
| jfilip
| But, to bring it around, yes, profiling logging before / after those changes will be very important.
| 10:23:20 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Dan P, in term of mainteneance, number of lines of code thta have to be written to fire one event is a reasonable metric.
| 10:23:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| your painting an extreme picture
| 10:23:37 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| yeah, less code is always better if possible
| 10:23:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| looking at that code ~50% is unit tests
| 10:23:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| probably another 25% is comments
| 10:24:10 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| now, smartly written code can still hit the hot paths
| 10:24:18 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Petr: please stop complaining about new events, it is part of public API since 2.6, it is nit going away, it works for new reports so far
| 10:24:23 PM
|-
| Martín Langhoff
| so it's hard to tell without reading / profiling
| 10:24:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Dan P, if representing one event is so complex, it requires unit tests to verify the code is correct, I don't think that is a good sign.
| 10:24:40 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| It's not just lines, it's a different API, thus different way of working. Switching from a single function call to an OO model had to create more lines
| 10:24:50 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Fred, exactly. I see no evidence that is a good trade-off.
| 10:25:10 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Everything New requires either unit or begat test s regardless of complexity.
| 10:25:33 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Juan: Sorry I couldn't hear very well. This OS X app of moodle mobile available now or with the latest release?
| 10:25:33 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| is there any audio atm?
| 10:25:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| adrian, so don't require a new class for every single event.
| 10:25:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Dan, v soon
| 10:25:57 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| dan: yes
| 10:25:59 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Cool!
| 10:26:07 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Raj: It would be nice to look at Log and live log reports changes and it gives more information and better filtering.
| 10:26:26 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| We just need more people getting around this Mobile client and extending it
| 10:26:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Am I the only person who can't hear anything?
| 10:26:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| in the hangout?
| 10:26:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Audio good for me
| 10:27:00 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| youtube audio is fine
| 10:27:02 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I can hear but not see Juan.
| 10:27:03 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| leaving and coming back
| 10:27:08 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| it worked ok for me
| 10:27:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| audio works fine for me as well
| 10:27:29 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve
| Any change to logging would generate more test code regardless of the architecture.
| 10:27:43 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Do you have many stats on the numbers of app downloads of the old versions?
| 10:28:05 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| is messages.moodle.net going to serve anyone who want to use notifications out there?
| 10:28:06 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Raj: If we don't add class then we need to process every event, which needs more processing and sometimes unreliable information (Legacy events which were added previously was good example that one line code is not always goodâ€¦ )
| 10:28:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| adrian, it is a scalability thing. Does every new event requrie new unit tests, O, or does just the core of the system require unit tests, optimisation, etc. O(1).
| 10:28:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Should be the latter.
| 10:28:31 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| An event is just data, not behaviour.
| 10:28:57 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Juan is there a doc for the nodewebkit/moodle mobile app stuff on moodle.org? Be interesting to see it
| 10:29:00 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| There should be no functionality to test.
| 10:29:05 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| There is a need for data validation
| 10:29:24 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the functionality and test should be of the API, not the individial events ...
| 10:29:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| JAson, yes, but that is not how it currently works.
| 10:29:48 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| but if each event is it's own function, then a unit test will be required...
| 10:29:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| in theory
| 10:30:04 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Events don't get introduced every day. It should be tested and added with proper thought.
| 10:30:05 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I asked about download stats for the app
| 10:30:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Exactly. 'IF;
| 10:30:08 PM
|-
| jleyva@jabber.org
| https://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Running_Moodle_Mobile_in_Desktop
| 10:30:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Links for integration update: 
[1] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 
[2] cime 
[3] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Browsers 
[4] $CFG->behat_screenshots_path: http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=blob;f=config-dist.php#l659 
[5] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting 
[6] https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Schedule 
[7] https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39752 
| 10:30:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Thans Juan!
| 10:30:47 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Nope
| 10:31:27 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| we can hear you dan
| 10:31:27 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| cibot looks suspiciously like a smurf
| 10:31:49 PM
|-
| jleyva@jabber.org
| Aparup messages.moodle.net is only for registered Moodle sites
| 10:32:48 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 
| 10:32:59 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| cime
| 10:33:12 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| cime doesn't pay ...
| 10:33:33 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| :D
| 10:33:47 PM
|-
| jfilip
| cime is great
| 10:33:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| comme ci, comme ca
| 10:34:09 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| I'm addicted to cime
| 10:34:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MDLSITE-2662
| 10:34:20 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2662 - First public runs of prechecker against various criteria.V: 1, W: 5, Type: Task, Assignee: Eloy Lafuente (stronk7), Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 10:34:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Just been asked by Ray Lawrence whether theres any info regarding decisions of server requirements for 2.7 if thats able to be covered today. (Don't shoot the messenger!! :P)
| 10:35:14 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it's NOT perfect???
| 10:35:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| cime watch!
| 10:35:18 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| We do shifter checks on all issues, but its a different bot
| 10:35:59 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| phpunit which is easy to install and behat which is impossible to install ;)
| 10:36:03 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Mdk ftw
| 10:36:35 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No. Behat is easy
| 10:36:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| with less compiler being considered to go into core as the in-built thing - any same ideas for shifter?
| 10:36:43 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No it isn't.
| 10:36:45 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| It is getting easier.
| 10:36:50 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Ask OU bosses to let you install serious OS
| 10:36:57 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| LOL
| 10:37:03 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| lol
| 10:37:04 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| good idea, but
| 10:37:09 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Dan Bennet: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.7_release_notes
| 10:37:11 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Martin: Yeah I did say to him ... thanks
| 10:37:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| that's current, AFAIK
| 10:37:38 PM
|-
| danbennett
| for now ;) haha
| 10:37:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I doubt it will change further
| 10:38:02 PM
|-
| danbennett
| ok
| 10:38:06 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Please, report issues and we can work on them
| 10:38:14 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I know I'm going to have to make behat work (for the conditional activity thing) and am dreading it
| 10:39:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| then you will love it
| 10:39:22 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Actually, sam, it works for me now.
| 10:39:26 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Except that I get random failures.
| 10:39:31 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Dan P, great slides!
| 10:39:51 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Be hat + phantomjs is great (even on windows)
| 10:39:55 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| tim - Oh, it works now? Are there instructions? Thanks for reassurance, sorry I should be less sarcastic then
| 10:40:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yes, nice slides!
| 10:40:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Sarcasm is good.
| 10:40:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://gist.github.com/danpoltawski/8036489
| 10:40:33 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Thats David Monllao serving up a paella
| 10:40:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I really ought to copy that to docs.
| 10:40:44 PM
|-
| Frédéric Massart
| LOL
| 10:40:50 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Great pic lol
| 10:40:51 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Looks good.
| 10:40:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Paella!
| 10:41:00 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| So we want to fix coding style in the line that happened to be edited for another purpose - e.g. https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43040 (I think that's a good idea, why not)
| 10:41:13 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also that's exactly what behat code looks like
| 10:41:21 PM
|-
| David Monllaó
| Aparup's home rules
| 10:41:26 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| screenshot - i like that
| 10:42:46 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Or have no wwwroot
| 10:43:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Damyon: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43246#comment-265751
| 10:43:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Quite a long time == overnight.
| 10:43:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK 4 or 6 hours for me.
| 10:44:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| on windows?
| 10:44:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Yes.
| 10:44:15 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| About the same for me.
| 10:44:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Is that a subtle hint about how to bribe the integrators.
| 10:44:33 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| ?
| 10:44:36 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Thanks tim, will look first thing tomorrow
| 10:44:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| There was a problem found in Linux with ext4, that our tests took something like 10x longer than ext3 â€¦. perhaps someone else can elaborate
| 10:45:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (I know it sounds crazy)
| 10:45:20 PM
|-
| jfilip
| There are fs options you can add to ext4 mount points to make them run a lot faster.
| 10:45:43 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| I missed the thing about docblocks/backports - is there a url for this policy?
| 10:45:52 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| AFAIK no-one here found them
| 10:45:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| sam, yes.
| 10:46:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Scroll back.
| 10:46:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oh sorry
| 10:46:15 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Reject
| 10:46:47 PM
|-
| jfilip
| This is what I use for ext4 on my workstation -- rw,noatime,seclabel,nobarrier,nouser_xattr,errors=remount-ro
| 10:46:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| thanks Justin, hope that helps someone
| 10:47:18 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| i heard about a blackbook Dan
| 10:47:33 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| the bit about doc blocks in backports doesn't seem to be mentioned in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Integration_Review#Backporting unless I am missing something
| 10:47:52 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hopefully the code freeze will be more relaxed for you this time
| 10:47:54 PM
|-
| jfilip
| But, yeah, when I first switched to ext4 a year or two ago I did notice a dramatic slowdown until I did some digging for options to speed it up.
| 10:48:04 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Sounds like the new MySQl
| 10:48:30 PM
|-
| jfilip
| So, is the code freeze for 2.7 going to be a code freeze or more of a light frost?
| 10:48:56 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| We discuss in I team and agree, then someone has to update the doc. It will happen soon
| 10:49:01 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Very cold.
| 10:49:09 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Soon(TM)
| 10:49:21 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I missed the key number. Is this 2.7 or 2.6 that will be LTS?
| 10:49:43 PM
|-
| jfilip
| No more integrating non-bug fix work the week or two before scheduled release?
| 10:49:47 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| 2.7
| 10:50:19 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| No integrating half done things the week before freeze
| 10:50:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Oh. Woldn't it be better to do risky infrastrucutre chagnes after the LTR?
| 10:50:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| jfilip: we are very firm about it in the integration team for this release
| 10:50:55 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Damyon: *cheers*
| 10:51:00 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Will the LTS version need backports of all bugs?
| 10:51:20 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| If it's based on usage/installation, you'll never be able to drop it
| 10:51:31 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| people will always avoid upgrades unless they have to, look at WinXP
| 10:51:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Dan Poltawski just wonders about alll.. the bug fixes
| 10:52:00 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Is no there a distinction on which bugs?
| 10:52:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| because there are LOADS of bugfixes and some are not very serious and it's been broken forever
| 10:52:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| IMO, the important thing is security and serious bugfixes
| 10:52:40 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| OK
| 10:52:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| some of the nigly bugs people can livewith
| 10:52:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (and often they can cause small changes in behaviour)
| 10:53:04 PM
|-
| jfilip
| New JIRA label for lts bugs? =)
| 10:53:05 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| was it mentioned how long roughly it'd be LTS'd for?
| 10:53:25 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| 3 yrs
| 10:53:44 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (just echoing Martin for chat
| 10:53:49 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| So, 2.7, 2.13, 2.19 ?
| 10:53:49 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| thanks sam
| 10:53:54 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| -1 to lag
| 10:54:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its like prerecording the meeting, and then watching it again and discusisng it
| 10:54:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (in fact that would prob work better)
| 10:54:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also chat not archived with video
| 10:54:58 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Also Google
| 10:55:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yeah, the streaming is great, its just the interaction which is a problem
| 10:55:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it's designed for broadcasting really
| 10:55:52 PM
|-
| jfilip
| It's nice that Hangouts on Air have 720p video now. It makes a shared browser window actually readable. =)
| 10:56:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (wait for the lag, michael :P)
| 10:56:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I'd prefer open source and BBB but it was just falling short with larger numbers
| 10:56:15 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| Offtopic: Looking to Michael in the darkness... and the reflection on his glasses... do you know F.lux? It works great: http://justgetflux.com
| 10:56:15 PM
|-
| jfilip
| +1 to f.lux
| 10:56:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| F.lux is wonderful
| 10:56:35 PM
|-
| jfilip
| =)
| 10:56:36 PM
|-
| danbennett
| GoToMeeting at all Michael? just a thought
| 10:56:53 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| i think that's about cvhanging screen brightness
| 10:56:54 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Not free tho to be fair
| 10:57:05 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Needs to cope with 100 people
| 10:57:11 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Michael, we've got someone on our team doing a personal project to research shared communication / meeting systems. If something interesting comes out of it we'll share the findings.
| 10:57:18 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| we could code one ourself! I just built a voice recorder using html5, it's totally reliable*.
| 10:57:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| * I am lying
| 10:57:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Maybe a Moodle video conference plugin? lol
| 10:57:42 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| no f.lux is for your screen brightness ..
| 10:57:44 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| we coudl stream to youtube on top of whatever we do, no?
| 10:58:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| btw mic unplugged michael?
| 10:58:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oops audio cut off? or just me? oh it's back
| 10:58:13 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Smoke signals and really powerful telescopes.
| 10:58:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| back now
| 10:58:23 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac
| now yes
| 10:58:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| cut off again
| 10:58:31 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| back
| 10:58:32 PM
|-
| sam marshall
|
| 10:58:33 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| mic gone soft
| 10:58:37 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Seems the mic has some kind of crazy limiter lol
| 10:58:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lol
| 10:58:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| oops, cut out again..
| 10:58:47 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| v quiet
| 10:58:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| yeah
| 10:58:48 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Over to yuo...
| 10:59:16 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| NSA
| 10:59:17 PM
|-
| Matthew Spurrier
| jfilip: i certainly wouldn't recommend using nobarrier, you lose power, you have the potential to lose a lot of data.. also noatime,nodiratime are risky for auditing/security purposes
| 10:59:26 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Too many torrents
| 10:59:34 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Matt, it's just my workstation on a battery backup.
| 10:59:57 PM
|-
| jfilip
| It's not a server. =)
| 11:00:06 PM
|-
| Matthew Spurrier
| yah, just pointing it out, just in case ;)
| 11:00:14 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Yeah, you're correct. For something that is "important" or might go down, poorly, those options won't really work.
| 11:00:39 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Nigel McNie (former Catalyst/Mahara) was working on a VC type solution. I'll ping him and find out
| 11:00:46 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| BBB had a new release
| 11:00:58 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Audio is breaking up for me. Am I alone?
| 11:01:19 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| audio seems fine here
| 11:01:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Do they have an Epic for this in the tracker?
| 11:02:00 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| half of the gradebook proposal comes from David Mudrakâ€¦
| 11:03:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For the Aus cahgnes?
| 11:03:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Would be good to group them with an Epic.
| 11:03:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| You can add it to the meeting notes later.
| 11:03:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| OK
| 11:04:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Rex asked the questions
| 11:05:04 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I've been booted and can't get back in. That's telling for Hangouts.
| 11:05:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| there have been 2 this week..
| 11:06:13 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| no major changes expected, just more improvements
| 11:06:20 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| bootstrapwood is coming back!
| 11:06:26 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| apart from the two this week, Petr?
| 11:06:33 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I asked earlier if we ahd to convert events in our add-ons when we ugprade to 2.6,and Petr said wait for 2.7.
| 11:06:34 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Once you go bootstrap you never go booback
| 11:06:35 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Random question: what's up with the namespace stuff in code - are we supposed to use that for all new core code in 2.7? If so is it documented?
| 11:06:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Sam: MDLSITE-2549
| 11:07:02 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2549 - Rules for namespacing.V: 0, W: 7, Type: Bug, Assignee: Dan Poltawski, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 11:07:03 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14661 https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/index.php?conversationid=14662
| 11:07:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No docs in the 2.6 release notes to explain the events changes.
| 11:07:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| Thanks Dan! So, it is not yet defined? OK
| 11:07:22 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| yeah, I've put GS there
| 11:08:03 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=239646 Prateek is on as well
| 11:08:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| MDL-31989
| 11:08:18 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31989 - Global Search 2.V: 48, W: 56, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Prateek Sachan, Priority: Major, Status: Open
| 11:08:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| sam marshall: i'm afraid its a bit undefined yep
| 11:08:29 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| What is the link to the Moodle Docs?
| 11:08:34 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| For new features, will they still be tested/supported on base?
| 11:08:34 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its another one on the integration team list
| 11:08:58 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| dan - Let's say I start building the conditional availability changes tomorrow, am I okay to not learn how to use namespaces? Is the question.
| 11:09:06 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| If its in core still, then yes
| 11:09:07 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill
| Martin Dougiamas: Reload the wiki page, someone added a line
| 11:09:09 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Rex, that came up earlier: yes. New UI changes should be tested on Base and Clean.
| 11:09:09 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| Another random question: what's happening (if anything) with survey 2.0?
| 11:09:17 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I found it hard to believe!
| 11:09:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| I really hate people "registering" words like "task" and others without any control. We should not allow first-to-land-wins liberty there. But look for a limited vocabulary. (after thinking about it like 10^6 times)
| 11:09:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Ther is a link to the tracker issue, but htat is all.
| 11:09:43 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| More important than name spaces is auto loading, which is great
| 11:09:48 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading
| 11:09:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Shall I create a MDLSITE?
| 11:10:04 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For docs for how to upgrade your add-on?
| 11:10:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| damyon - auto loading used to work without namespaces, not sure it still does or not
| 11:10:18 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Hi Aparup, Tomasz!
| 11:10:21 PM
|-
| jfilip
| MDL-39797 - New events infrastructure 
https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_2.6_release_notes#For_developers:_API_changes
| 11:10:22 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39797 - META: Events 2.V: 2, W: 5, Type: Epic, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Major, Status: Closed
| 11:10:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| just tell petr to stop removing dev_docs_required off his issues with 1 line
| 11:10:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| That is system spect, not advice for add-on authros.
| 11:10:26 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (Dan - thanks for doc)
| 11:10:49 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Auto loading works with or without
| 11:10:53 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi Prateek
| 11:10:57 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Oooh pretty new homepage
| 11:12:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| i like the colours
| 11:12:33 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Everything is pretty good.
| 11:13:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| MDLSITE-2710
| 11:13:18 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-2710 - The Moodle 2.6 release notes need to make it clear to add-on authors how to upgrade their plugins for the events changes.V: 0, W: 0, Type: Bug, Assignee: Unassigned, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 11:13:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thanks all
| 11:14:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| thanks everyone sorry for the people who stayed up late...
| 11:14:21 PM
|-
| danbennett
| Great stuff!
| 11:14:33 PM
|-
| jfilip
| Thanks, all.
| 11:14:37 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| next dev mtg?
| 11:14:40 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Cya
| 11:14:41 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| 3 months
| 11:14:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis
| night all
| 11:14:45 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| byeee
| 11:14:49 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| roger gdnite!
| 11:14:53 PM
|-
| Adam Olley
| 2am is a perfectly acceptable sleep time :P
| 11:14:58 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| bye all
| 11:15:02 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| rave!
| 11:15:02 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| sam - was this the music you wanted to end on?
| 11:15:04 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Thanks everyone - have a great yesterday
| 11:15:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| off to find an air conditioner now
| 11:15:05 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Bye!
| 11:15:10 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I need a burger.
| 11:15:15 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Perfect timing with the music
| 11:15:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| 
| 11:15:22 PM
|-
| meetingroom
| Thanks all
| 11:15:53 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| sam: david fixed the cygwin problem
| 11:17:20 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Bye, thanks everyone
| 11:17:21 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| and we need help from newbies identifiying the gaps in the intructions
| 11:17:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its practiaclly the same as phpunit in terms of setup, except that unlike phpunit it needs a webserver and browser server
| 11:20:04 PM
|}
</div>

If you have something you'd like to correct on this page, please [https://docs.moodle.org/dev/index.php?title=Developer_meeting_January_2014&action=edit edit this page] or contact [http://moodle.org/user/profile.php?id=381842 Michael d].

Developer meeting October 2013

2014-01-17T02:35:26Z

Xymoodle: Updated video links

[[Developer meetings]] > October 2013 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2013&month=10&day=22&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 22 October 2013]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://www.youtube.com/moodlehq Moodle YouTube channel]
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we will focus on the upcoming Moodle release.

== Meeting video ==

<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMAjDAa4S80</mediaplayer>

== Meeting Notes ==

=== Moodle 2.6 progress ===
* [[Moodle_2.6_release_notes|Release notes]] are being prepared. Devs should add information related to changes there.
* Two new features still in progress. Work on these will continue after 2.6 release.
** [[Logging_2|Logging]]
** [[Outcomes_Specification|Outcomes]]
* [https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto Atto editor] was considered but won't be in Core. Will consider editors in next cycle.

=== [[QA_testing|QA Testing]] ===
* Already underway ([https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=11454 QA Dashboard])
* A reminder about using labels
** When adding features that need a QA test, add the ''qa_test_required label''.
** For automated testing devs can add the ''acceptance_test_required'' label.
** New features should also have a ''docs_required'' label added (and now is the time to add those docs).
** There is a guide to using [[Tracker_issue_labels|Official labels]]
** There is also a guide to writing [[Acceptance_testing/Contributing_automated_tests|Automated tests]]

=== Question behaviours ===
* Question behaviours can now add summary information to the quiz review page.
* Change to API is not backwards compatible, but not a big change for question behaviour devs. (No changes required to question types.)

=== Quick Data Generation ===
* There are a number of ways to add data into Moodle in an automated fashion. ([https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000 Notes])
* ''tool_uploadcourse'' allows admins to upload courses from CSV file
** course content can be based on a backup
* ''tool_uploadusers'' allows admins to upload users from CSV file (not new)
* ''enrol_flatfile'' allows users to be enrolled using a CSV file (not new)
* ''testing_data_generator'' provides methods that can be used in automated testing and can be used to fill example course with dummy data
** generator does not guarantee compatibility with capabilities, settings, events or actions
* Admin tool maketestcourse.php can be used to generate courses of varying sizes
* Other sources of data are web services and Behat features.

=== Performance testing ===
* Perforamce testing requires big data sets
* We are using the large course generator
* Added JMeter test generator, which allows...
** Testing performance of a change
** Testing of weekly/larger release
** Comparing hardware
** Tuning
* Configured by setting the "before" and "after" branches in a script and basing versions on backups (DB and data).

=== Plugins ===
* Changes to Plugins Directory
** New RSS feeds (new plugins as well as updates)
** Links to translations in plugins entries
* Plugins Directory ready for 2.6 versions
* Awards from editors, ratings and reviews needed

=== Plugin management ===
* Updates and cleanup to make plugins faster
* Various plugins can now have [[Subplugins|sub-plugins]]
* Names must be unique across all plugins, so think seriously about this.

=== Session changes ===
* Newly redesigned session driver now works with PHP, file and memcache
* Performance is dependant on underlying PHP driver
* Not a significant performance improvement, but more consistency and cooperation between session drivers.
* Should benefit clustered servers, where other improvements have been made.

=== [[HTML_Guidelines|HTML Guidelines]] ===
* Need for consistency, clearer DOM and more accessibility
* Activity module authors should attempt to follow guidelines in pages to achieve semantic consistency
* Please be involved in a [https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457 discussion] about this.

=== Policy decisions ===
* We now have a [https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MDL%20AND%20component%20%3D%20Policy%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Closed%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC tracker component] to help decide development related policy changes.
* Example: New features don't need to have a JS fallback, but do need to comply with accessibility guidelines. (MDL-41535)

=== Backup and restore ===
* In 2.6 we now support gzip which allows bigger (>4gb) backups.
* A progress bar shows activity while course is being restored.

==Attendees==
Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Davis, Andrew Davidson, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Damyon Wiese, Dan Poltawski, Dan Bennett, David Monllaó, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Eloy, Eric Merrill, Gareth J Barnard, Helen Foster, Jason Fowler, Jenny Gray, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Justin Fillip, Juan Leyva, Kristy, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Mary Cooch, Michael de Raadt, Michael Blake, Mike Churcward, Russel Smith, Peter Bulmer, Petr Škoda, Prateek Sachan, Ray Lawrence, Rex Lorenzo, Ruslan Kablan, Rosie Wijaya, Sam Marshall, Shane Elliot, Tim Hunt, Yair Spielmann, Yuliya Bozhko.

==Meeting chat log==
<div style="height:300px;overflow:auto;">
{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Adrian Greeve 
| Good evening everyone.
| 8:54:02 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| Hi.
| 8:54:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Just starting the room
| 8:56:49 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Greetings all
| 8:57:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Streaming video will be
| 8:59:54 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Hello all
| 9:00:24 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Hi Gareth
| 9:00:32 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal 
| Hello
| 9:01:38 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| Hi All
| 9:02:35 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| I'm inviting all those down on the agenda to speak
| 9:02:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt 
| Is the video link on the Moodledocs pagee yet?
| 9:02:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt 
| Sam just failed ot get in.
| 9:02:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| its up there^
| 9:02:48 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
|
| 9:03:01 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| You can also find it from here - http://www.youtube.com/user/moodlemeetings/videos
| 9:03:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| I'm just about to send a new beta release to github, please rebase
| 9:05:30 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| s/github/git mirrors
| 9:05:40 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Starting the broadcast now
| 9:05:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| seeing it yet?
| 9:06:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| no
| 9:06:21 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| Nope
| 9:06:24 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| yes
| 9:06:27 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| no
| 9:06:27 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Yes
| 9:06:29 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| always takes time
| 9:06:30 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray 
| yes
| 9:06:30 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| just came up for me
| 9:06:37 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| yes
| 9:06:40 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| yes *waves*
| 9:06:43 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Just started here
| 9:06:46 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| I can't get in to the hang out
| 9:06:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yes
| 9:06:52 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| keep getting a fatal error when trying to install the plugin
| 9:07:05 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| yes
| 9:07:08 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| apparently no more can get into the hangout. just watch on youtube
| 9:07:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Jason you should be added
| 9:07:23 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Andrew, I am supposed to be presenting
| 9:07:24 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| somebody can hear me?
| 9:07:31 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| well that could be an issue then
| 9:07:34 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| yes David M but soft
| 9:07:41 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| yeah, it will be
| 9:07:55 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| whos got their audio on, can hear an echo
| 9:08:03 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| there is echo. can those not speaking please mute your microphone
| 9:08:16 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| David is really quiet
| 9:08:41 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| as usually
| 9:08:47 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Hi, Tim! =)
| 9:09:35 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_October_2013#Agenda
| 9:10:11 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| jfilip: lol, sorry I'm not specially physically comfortable here
| 9:12:54 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Atto as well ..
| 9:13:34 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| David, no worries. I can crank my volume when you're talking if need be. ;)
| 9:14:10 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Atto will be going up onto Plugins directory.
| 9:14:10 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Yep, but it won't be in core so it won't be getting the same priority.
| 9:15:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| comment.
| 9:17:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| think Tim wants to talk
| 9:17:18 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| hi helen
| 9:17:23 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Yes
| 9:17:38 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| yep
| 9:18:09 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| sorry it seems the lag is even bigger than usual, approx 1 min for some
| 9:18:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| qa_test_required
| 9:19:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels
| 9:19:18 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Have user docs been split yet?
| 9:20:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yes, eric
| 9:20:25 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| yes Eric
| 9:20:27 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| thanks
| 9:20:30 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| yes! for beer
| 9:20:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| Are the QA tests being trimmed down as they are replaced by behat?
| 9:21:06 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt 
| Yes adnrew
| 9:21:14 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| huzzah
| 9:21:22 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Yes (not in this iteration though)
| 9:21:25 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| very quiet?
| 9:21:52 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt 
| Please can I go next, so I can then escape to my othre meeting. Sorry.
| 9:21:55 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| David is mentioning acceptance_test_required
| 9:22:00 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Yes, very quiet
| 9:22:00 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| ^ also in the tracker labels docs https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels
| 9:22:09 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing/Contributing_automated_tests
| 9:22:33 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| Its very hard to hear
| 9:23:02 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| I missed Dan's iMoot presentation on Behat in Moodle - waiting for the replay on YouTube - beyond https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Behat_integration what is the best way to learn how to create automated tests please?
| 9:25:08 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Look at examples of other tests in Moodle already?
| 9:25:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Gareth J Barnard: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing
| 9:25:50 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Anyone here working opn questions?
| 9:26:09 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Or, what Dan said. =)
| 9:26:27 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy 
| https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000
| 9:26:37 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Andrew Nicols appears a touch late
| 9:26:51 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| Is it just question behaviours or types as well?
| 9:26:57 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| Not working on questions.
| 9:27:11 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| davo - I think it's just behaviours
| 9:27:15 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| ok - that's a relief
| 9:27:24 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @jfilip But they are the output. Thanks Dan - any good screen casts you would recommend too?
| 9:27:26 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Marina has dyed her hair (again)?
| 9:27:58 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Off topic a bit there Andrew :P
| 9:28:18 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| heh
| 9:28:23 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Sorry, I got stuck in traffic and all sorts
| 9:28:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Gareth: I don't think so (I don't think it'd help, to be honest). I showed it for about 2 mins at that imoot talk
| 9:28:57 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @Dan - thanks - I'll read through the links posted.
| 9:29:33 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| heh, I got stuck with Windows not allowing me to uninstall the Google Talk plugin in order to install the Google Hangouts plugin ...
| 9:29:38 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Gareth, I was referring to the existing code in Moodle that runs the tests within Moodle.
| 9:30:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (its 'cool' to see the browser doing its thing magically, but it doesn't help so much with getting it setup )
| 9:30:20 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| bloody iGadgets. No way yo connect to the stream in a reliable way. I've tried hangouts, google+, youtube and ios safari. Uninstalling all the google ones right now.
| 9:30:27 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Eloy it's just a youtube video, should work nearly on anything
| 9:30:57 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| tell it to my ipad, please.
| 9:31:08 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| now I'm in the laptop.
| 9:31:21 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| ?
| 9:31:25 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @jfilip - no worries - just looking to understand how to install and create tests.
| 9:31:31 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| heh, the laptop should play nicely
| 9:31:32 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| yes, i'm there, listening to marina
| 9:31:33 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| though it does not show the "live" red light.
| 9:32:10 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Shame Tim won't be here to respond to what I have to say, he was the one that requested the discussion
| 9:32:13 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| i'm looking forward to better testing using really huge datasets
| 9:32:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Note it's good for UI testing as well as performance things
| 9:33:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| 'make large course' tool worth mentioning at this point?
| 9:33:12 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yep
| 9:33:24 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Once you get large data then you move onto the next problem: testing with multiple people hitting the same Moodle site at the same time with that large dataset in your DB.
| 9:33:54 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| suspect she might be getting to it, Sam
| 9:34:17 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| cool
| 9:34:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| heh, has anyone seen the comments on the youtube video
| 9:34:41 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| The Urban Ninja I love using moodle for school The Urban Ninja How long did it take to createï»¿ moodle?
| 9:34:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| btw, the generator stuff is pretty nice to use
| 9:34:52 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| (imo)
| 9:34:57 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve 
| A tad difficult to see the example.
| 9:35:00 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| @jfilip: https://github.com/moodlehq/moodle-performance-comparison
| 9:35:28 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| adrian - make fullscreen and iut will switch to hd mode
| 9:35:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| you can read code there
| 9:35:59 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Dan P, please don't confuse the speaker with mentioning ninjas
| 9:36:00 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| er if on youtube that is
| 9:36:15 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Rex, interesting, thanks.
| 9:36:17 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve 
| Not on my connection it won't. I already have it full screen.
| 9:36:31 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yeah, maybe we need a differnet back channel which isn't for the speaker to read
| 9:36:31 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve 
| I'll have to rewatch it.
| 9:36:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| So we can talk about the speaker behind their back?
| 9:36:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Adrian - the link to the presentation is up there^
| 9:36:59 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| adrian - ah sorry, did on mine (took 10 seconds to update)
| 9:36:59 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| I will be talking about that tool
| 9:37:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iQnjdmHZ_CQp44iQRqocxUuV19_idTMHikZ6GL54v1Y/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000
| 9:37:30 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Why would events not trigger during data generation?
| 9:38:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| they don't all use the api functions
| 9:38:25 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Ah...
| 9:38:49 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| yay, finally got it in the ipad via google+
| 9:38:54 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| IIRC Marina is working on using the API
| 9:39:21 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (I mean you've got to remember they started from making the bare basics for unit testing)
| 9:39:50 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Or trigger the necessary events that would be called if you used the API?
| 9:39:59 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| It's probably a good idea to have the option of using the Moodle API. 1) I want it fast, I don't care about events. 2) I want a "true" simulation, use the API and trigger events, I don't care how long it takes.
| 9:40:14 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| thanks marina
| 9:41:01 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| jason likes the Portal turret on the shelf ... "Are you still there?"
| 9:41:22 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| ok for everybody?
| 9:42:02 PM
|-
| Davo Smith 
| better
| 9:42:29 PM
|-
| Adrian Greeve 
| Yrs, much better.
| 9:42:55 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| doing this outside on the patio to avoid waking up my daughter was a crazy idea
| 9:44:22 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| cold?
| 9:44:31 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I'm back in the office
| 9:44:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| a little
| 9:45:05 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| made worse by the fact the garden sprinklers have been on
| 9:45:27 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| lots of bugs?
| 9:45:48 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| screen is covered in midgies
| 9:46:17 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| (mute your mike if not speaking)
| 9:46:18 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| and lol
| 9:46:45 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (waiting to hear this..)
| 9:47:03 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| David's script makes this all reasonably simple once it's set up
| 9:47:58 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| you'll be wanting to performance test after every line of code :P
| 9:48:15 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| This is great. It all works?
| 9:48:37 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| tsh!
| 9:48:51 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yep
| 9:48:52 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| it'd be great having more people looking at it, not many people have tried it out yet (myself included)
| 9:49:21 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| I've used it a bit. Although it was a bit confusing to setup the first time. Needs a bit of docs work.
| 9:49:29 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| I will definitely give it a try.
| 9:49:36 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| sounds in the background?
| 9:50:24 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Eric, It can't be any more awkward to setup than the Behat tests, can it?
| 9:50:25 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| (David's housemates.)
| 9:50:36 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| ah ok
| 9:50:41 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| ah
| 9:50:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Martin Dougiamas waits for him to shout STFU
| 9:50:55 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| jfilip: I've actually found that behat has become pretty easy (used to be much harder)
| 9:50:57 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Yeah, the results page is very interesting. We are using it to test different muc cache settings and server side configs. Anyone have igbinary turned on for their prod setups?
| 9:51:01 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| I'm really glad Moodle HQ are doing this stuff. One issue, large systems like us have setups where the web server is on different physical hardware (requiring network round trips) from database, filesystem, and memcache if included. There were things which made Moodle 2.4 slower on that type of system, it has different perf characteristics. Any plans to do regular tests on a system with web server on different physical hardware from the filesystem (NFS) etc?.
| 9:51:10 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| obv we could do that with this code I assume...
| 9:51:30 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Definitely Sam. We'll be testing on a cluster similar to the one we built for moodle.org
| 9:51:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| awesome, thanks
| 9:51:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| rexlorenzo@gmail.com: what effect did igbinary have for you?
| 9:52:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| uses glusterFS and galera for db
| 9:52:47 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| I did notice when running my tests that my results wereâ€¦ jumpy. Quite a bit of fluctuation from run to run. I need to fiddle more to see if it was something I was doing or not, but I would probably not run just one test and assume it's reprsentative
| 9:53:08 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| igbinary cuts session site in half. But not using it in prod yet, still testing
| 9:53:20 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| *size
| 9:53:24 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| And perf though?
| 9:53:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Eric: david has been trying different variations and mentioned the number earlier where getting consistent results
| 9:53:53 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| for sure, eric, wait to you see the graphs david has made at the end
| 9:53:55 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Thanks - I'm having a hard time understanding him :/
| 9:54:28 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| David, do you have those graphs?
| 9:55:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| don't bother with solaris
| 9:55:55 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| if you work with Solaris, Moodle performance is likely to be the least of your issues :P
| 9:55:57 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| heh
| 9:56:41 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I was speaking to someone at a large British University running Solaris for Eevverrything
| 9:56:42 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| with oracle surely, lol
| 9:56:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| I spent most of the 90's on Solaris workstations
| 9:56:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Andrew used to be the resident solaris expert in our last job
| 9:57:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| he will be happy to work on it again
| 9:57:25 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| muahhahahah.. I made them all feel like they were running Debian
| 9:57:32 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| sure, once you abandone it, never return, lol.
| 9:57:42 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I'm actually on the OpenCSW packaging team still ;\
| 9:57:43 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I really should quite
| 9:57:47 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| quit*
| 9:57:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| (the opencsw team)
| 9:57:55 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Used Solaris in the 90's too when compiling C++ took 40 mins on a relatively medium project.
| 9:58:23 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| I think this tool could really develop into a nice analysis tool
| 9:58:24 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| it compares any number of runs with each other
| 9:58:38 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Yeah. I really liked it. I think the thing I would like is if you can average a number of runs, and compare that against another average of runs
| 9:59:27 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| If that makes sense
| 9:59:35 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| But overall I liked it a lot
| 9:59:56 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| I think I've an OUTDATED version available @ http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/
| 10:00:24 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (David are you showing us a screen that is off screen?)
| 10:00:29 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| (remark: OUTDATED, 2-3 wekks old)
| 10:00:36 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Very Cool :D
| 10:01:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (show people pretty graphs - the solution to everything in life)
| 10:01:24 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| well it works when people are starting to talk about solaris
| 10:01:44 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @DanP will that work with the camelCase discussion? ;)
| 10:02:08 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Andrew Nicols suspects that the camelCase discussion will soon cease
| 10:02:36 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| btw, this looks pretty awesome
| 10:02:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| David doesn't understand my english either
| 10:03:04 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Indeed. Big thumbs up!
| 10:03:11 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Very cool!
| 10:03:15 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| Eric, about the fluctuations try with "S" size, 30 users and 5 loops (by default) results should be stable
| 10:04:04 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| still the forum post redirect with all zeros, eh
| 10:04:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Huh Eloy?
| 10:04:33 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yeah there is a bug there with redirects still
| 10:04:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| BTW david - you should post on the hardware and perfmance forum
| 10:04:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (don't think you've posted about it yet?)
| 10:04:49 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMonllao: Thanks. I'll play with it a bit more
| 10:05:02 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| nah we have an ongoing issue to capture info from redirects (internal problem)
| 10:05:06 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| finally new calendar types!
| 10:05:25 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMonllao: It's mostly server load and time taken that fluctuate (but are also the numbers I care most about :D )
| 10:05:31 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| yeah, environment must be STABLE for them to have any sense.
| 10:05:49 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| DavidMonllao: can you please mute your mic?
| 10:06:02 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| i got it perfectly. best everybody!
| 10:06:21 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| For those who use load balancers, I have two new cache stores waiting for approval that greatly speed sites
| 10:06:35 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| memcache(d)cluster
| 10:06:40 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| w00t!
| 10:06:48 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| you did it!
| 10:06:54 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Calendar types - Gregorian comes with core
| 10:06:55 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| (obviously)
| 10:07:11 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| if you are running the tests in a dev. client computer is normal
| 10:07:11 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| that broken image is worrying :P
| 10:08:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| there is a MDLSITE
| 10:08:30 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| blame the cluster
| 10:08:35 PM
|-
| David Monllaó 
| an isolated server will return stable resutls, at least it should, we are backing up database and dataroot at the beginning and restoring it after the first test plan run
| 10:08:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| ffs
| 10:08:45 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yep
| 10:09:38 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| no
| 10:09:40 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| yes apu
| 10:09:59 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Aparup: I heard there were plans for auto-release on git branch update. Is that still in the work (or there and I didn't know it)?
| 10:10:00 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| wow that's like a 2 min lag
| 10:10:09 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| If a user uses the automated installer for a plugin can they choose then to subscribe to comments? As might be helpful.
| 10:10:30 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| (If Google doesn't add a better built-in chat to Hangouts on Air I think I would like to try a better tool for this meeting next time â€¦ )
| 10:12:14 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Eric Merrill, we are a bit worried about it
| 10:12:37 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMudrak: Or even a 'click here to fetch your new version from github', even if it wasnt completely automated
| 10:13:14 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| I never update my plugins, too lazy/busy ;( Have automation to update github for all of them when i run a script, but not the moodle bit
| 10:13:22 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Really like the Github code searching
| 10:13:27 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Eric, that is already supported
| 10:13:30 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| we have Github repository
| 10:13:36 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| so you can pick the ZIP directly via it
| 10:13:49 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMudrak: Oh - Ill have to try that out
| 10:13:55 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Yes, it's really cool
| 10:14:05 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| (credit goes to Dan P)
| 10:14:12 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMudrak: Thanks. It's hard keeping up with everything!
| 10:14:24 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| nah, tell me about that
| 10:14:37 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| Where is the code search on the plugin page? Is that only for selected users?
| 10:14:40 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| It would definitely be nice to have it automated, especially when you are doing a minor change which you then have to apply to multiple branches
| 10:14:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| I think pushing a tag would make sense
| 10:15:01 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yeah I agree.
| 10:15:06 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| yeah
| 10:15:08 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| I think that a tag is enough of a thing to say 'ive thought about it'
| 10:15:35 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Git is so fast â€¦ shouldn't be hard to poll every hour or so
| 10:15:39 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| It depends on people being pretty disciplined in using Git
| 10:15:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| we could use special Moodle plugins tags for this
| 10:16:04 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| DavidMudrak: you could even call it moodle.org-plugins-v1.1 or something crazy
| 10:16:13 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| yes tag would be awesome
| 10:16:13 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| plugin_release_trigger_5 or something
| 10:16:24 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| release_version_20131022 ?
| 10:16:35 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| and only rebuild the zip on incremented version numbers?
| 10:16:54 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| release_26_20131022?
| 10:17:14 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| that makes more sense Andrew
| 10:17:25 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Most of the 3rd party plugins that we track at RL don't use tags at all in their Git repositories for their plugins.
| 10:17:48 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| David Mudrak is still sceptic about it. I just saw too much of creativity of our good contributors
| 10:17:55 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| don't like numbers personally, dates are good since alkready in version.php etc.
| 10:18:00 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| I suggest a tag because people don't routinely tag
| 10:18:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| but, it fits perfectly with the use case, and is in the git tool
| 10:18:27 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Yeah, it makes it explicit that you want to auto-release a version
| 10:18:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| and distinct from just commiting
| 10:18:47 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| I think tags are a good idea for something like that, or something within a comment that is parsed.
| 10:18:55 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| What's the current backlog on plugins awaiting approval?
| 10:19:14 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| like "CONTRIB-XXX [commit_msg] #release_20131022"
| 10:19:20 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| But at that point, you might as well be using a tag anyway. =)
| 10:19:42 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Eric Merrill, Waiting for approval plugins (19)
| 10:20:05 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| DavidMudrak: Thanks
| 10:21:08 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| I use tags for all my releases, perhaps if it's so important then a 'tag' link should be manditory?
| 10:21:45 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Let's encourage people to tag releases, let's make the "new release by the tag" easier but please, let us not force anything. There are people using their ways, SCMs, worflows etc
| 10:22:46 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| 1
| 10:23:00 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| (agree)
| 10:23:07 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| Yepâ€¦ Encourage strongly...
| 10:23:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (of course its already mandatory to upload from the webpage :P)
| 10:23:15 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| i use .doc files to keep my history here.
| 10:23:23 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Yeah, if someone isn't using tags in their repository but is still putting up a "release" on plugins DB, that still worsk for me.
| 10:23:25 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| I would think you would need to set it up in your plugin settings (repo, branchs, enable tags, etc), completely optional
| 10:23:26 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| not forcing = fine, but can we have automated never-look-at-moodle-website updates at least as an option
| 10:23:46 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| sam marshall, we can expose it via web services and let the community write tools for it
| 10:24:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| btw I think we can delete my items from agenda, since i'm not in hangout and they're notr that important and long meeting is long
| 10:24:54 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| pff, we need the community to test moodle via uploading on the site :P
| 10:24:54 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| The problem would be if someone just dumps something in the tip of a branch in Git that is in-progress code and someone updates their site with that code which isn't even finished and potentially breaks that plugin or core Moodle functionality due to inadvertently pulling in unstable code.
| 10:24:57 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| What about a star rating?
| 10:25:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| pftt stars
| 10:25:18 PM
|-
| Helen Foster 
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Plugin_reviews
| 10:25:24 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Mind you I only tag with a version number, I've never considered adding a requires Moodle version date. Would help with the questions and the 'requires' using the '$plugin->requires' does not have a one to one mapping with '$release' in core 'version.php'.
| 10:25:25 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Yes, its important to remember how pushing a branch now could have an impact
| 10:25:29 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| by automated I meant, eg via tag. web service if it doesn't suck
| 10:25:34 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| not any old push
| 10:25:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (immediately deployed to all moodle sites, etc)
| 10:25:53 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| If partners have done a review of a plugin, maybe share to that from the plugins page itself? Just a thought
| 10:26:01 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Gareth, for our plugins we bake the Moodle version into the plugin version number, e.g. 2.4.x.y, 2.5.x.y, 2.6.x.y so the version number tells you which version of Moodle that release runs on.
| 10:26:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Does anyone follow stuff on their own plugins via rss feeds?
| 10:26:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yes.
| 10:26:40 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| no.
| 10:26:54 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| I haven't, but ive been adding them yo my reader now
| 10:27:00 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (Btw, you guys should see how painful it is to upload an update to Apple with billions of dollars to make their developer portal)
| 10:27:03 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @jfilip - I do that already - but still get issues with very minor releases where the API changes.
| 10:27:12 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yeah
| 10:27:16 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| we really encourage people to use github issues if they want to report anything, although i do sometimes reply to comments
| 10:27:34 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| dan - if moodle can't have more open practices than Apple...
| 10:27:54 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| Is there any intention to use data captured during update checking and reporting that back to potential downloaders?
| 10:27:57 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Is using the CONTRIB project on the Moodle Tracker still recommended?
| 10:28:02 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| (For contrib addons . . . )
| 10:28:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Sam: i'm not talking about open, i'm talking about tool usability
| 10:28:26 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| jfilip, it really depends imho
| 10:28:28 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @Sam They can use GitHub issues and Tracker, and I use the latter more.
| 10:28:30 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Yeh, depends on what the developer prefers
| 10:28:41 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| dan - integrating with git to automatically update, rather than going via a complex form process, would be more open
| 10:28:43 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| David Mudrak personally switched to Github tracker for his addons
| 10:28:44 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Subplugins - AKA plugin-plugins :P
| 10:28:52 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| Didn't know hotpot was so widely downloaded o-O
| 10:29:20 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| bloody hell, it's almost summer, why is it so cold!!!
| 10:29:31 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| global warming
| 10:29:41 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| danbennett: Hotpot is really widely used.
| 10:29:50 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| well thats why i want to work in more breakdowns into the statistics page
| 10:29:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| o.O global cooling?
| 10:30:00 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| I hear the progress report plugin is pretty awesome
| 10:30:06 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Global weather chaos
| 10:30:22 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| the certificate plugin is pretty decent too
| 10:30:23 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Lol, no it's not
| 10:30:30 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| Michael d: Just didnt realise how much compared to certificate. heh
| 10:30:33 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| just avoid the pushover one for 2.6 - it's not ready yet
| 10:30:40 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Yay, for plugins love! =)
| 10:30:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
|
| 10:30:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Still needs a lot more IMO
| 10:31:06 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| (sorry i was referring to db, not the new subplugins fixes)
| 10:31:50 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Petr Å koda, what plugin types support subplugins now?
| 10:32:18 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Subplugins
| 10:32:24 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| thanks
| 10:32:47 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| When will we have recursive sub-plugins?
| 10:33:24 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| lol
| 10:33:36 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yay perf increase
| 10:33:54 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Yeah, I was facing the limited length of tables in workshopallocation_* plugins, too
| 10:34:27 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| *table names
| 10:34:34 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| contenteditable_* is a bad sub plugin name - atto_* is much better
| 10:34:38 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Aparup, that reminds me - we should have a way to "book" the plugin name you are working on somehow
| 10:35:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| related.. MDL-41310
| 10:35:08 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41310 - Should we drop our support for Oracle databases?.V: 1, W: 15, Type: Bug, Assignee: Michael de Raadt, Priority: Minor, Status: Open
| 10:35:09 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| fgtr
| 10:35:09 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| A little discussion on the theme's forum about having 'sub-theme-plugins' so a way that you could create a display component like a 'slider' and then that be included in your theme without the developer adding it. Like 'theme components'.
| 10:35:22 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| there was a problem the plugins DB too, but it was resolved by taking a part of the name - iirc 28 chars?
| 10:35:35 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Everybody wants subplugins.
| 10:35:38 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| is 2.6 beta out there already ?
| 10:35:46 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| in the plugins db
| 10:35:52 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| y
| 10:35:59 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| David Mudrak will rename to just "shop"
| 10:36:01 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| well you can always book by first uploading - it can remain unapproved and you can reschedule for approval when ready again
| 10:36:09 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| yes Eloy
| 10:36:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| doh
| 10:36:22 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Aparup, ah
| 10:36:23 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| oh no domain name squatting all over again
| 10:36:28 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| Eloy Lafuente updates his plugins
| 10:36:30 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| shouldn't have mentioned oracle
| 10:36:31 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Aparup, does it mean that unapproved plugins block the name forever?
| 10:36:46 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Petr Å koda, when will we support subplugins for all types?
| 10:37:07 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| this ofcourse still goes through human eyes - squatters - and unaproved plugins , will be cleaned/ping every now and then
| 10:37:28 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| Thanks Petr for working on MDL-42110 - is it critical enough to be back ported despite a possible issue. I'm getting a lot of people experiencing this issue.
| 10:38:28 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42110 - Installing add-ons causes 500 internal server error..V: 0, W: 5, Type: Bug, Assignee: Petr Å koda, Priority: Critical, Status: Waiting for integration review
| 10:38:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| jason should have put on warmer socks
| 10:40:10 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| The new sessions should really help clusters in particular
| 10:41:24 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
|
| 10:41:29 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Yeah, I'm excited to deploy 2.6 in a few months
| 10:42:04 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| David found a good improvement from it I think
| 10:42:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| DavidMonllao: ?
| 10:42:27 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| graphs to come on release notes
| 10:43:03 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| db tables prob?
| 10:43:17 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40979
| 10:43:22 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| Everytime Petr looks to the camera my Google+ stops streaming.
| 10:43:25 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| (also in the 'stuff that can be cached locally' list, I meant)
| 10:43:27 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| (or perhaps it's everytime he says "oracle")
| 10:43:36 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| lol
| 10:43:37 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Google runs on Oracle obvously
| 10:43:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Eloy: you might want to read his comment in the relesae notes
| 10:44:03 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| NSA trigger word.
| 10:44:05 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| links for my topic: |-https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - Documentation https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457 - Discussion https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40685 - Meta of issues completed - Stage 1 https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40664 - Meta of issues remaining - Stage 2
| 10:44:49 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| @Michael d - Would that word be a mountain in north Wales?
| 10:45:04 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| For anybody interested in cluster stuff, I would look at (and comment on) MDL-42071
| 10:45:18 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-42071 - Support for split memcache/memcached stores.V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Eric Merrill, Priority: Minor, Status: Development in progress
| 10:45:18 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| (I don't disagree with the release notes about oracle, btw)
| 10:45:28 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| It all sounds good. Too good actually. Suspecious.
| 10:45:36 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Well of course you would, Eric, it's assigned to you
| 10:45:47 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| :D
| 10:45:52 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard 
| I have to go, thank you all
| 10:46:17 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| ciao, Gareth, ty!
| 10:46:31 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| split cache is possible - how does it deal with cache coherence? Does it update all servers on write/delete and read from local?
| 10:46:33 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
|
| 10:46:40 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Yes
| 10:46:40 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| write many /read 1
| 10:46:43 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| yay, sounds very good
| 10:46:50 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi Prateek
| 10:47:38 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| Tim had some concern about adding duplicate headings, which is bad for everyone (especially screenreader users)
| 10:48:56 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
|
| 10:48:57 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| Like the general html guidelines look good but there were some changes that appeared to add duplicate headings for page names and stuff
| 10:49:23 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan 
| Hi Aparup
| 10:49:33 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Sam, is there a link to Tim's concerns?
| 10:49:35 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| Tims raised that about e.g. LTI where there is an activity name and then the LTI might have it's own heading
| 10:49:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| we were looking at them
| 10:49:39 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| which is a valid concern
| 10:49:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| probably but I don't know where Just doing this from memory
| 10:49:54 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| sam for mod_page
| 10:49:58 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| I saw Tim's comment where it referred to SCORM
| 10:49:58 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| he didn't tell me to deputise for him or anything, sorry
| 10:50:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Agreed that duplicate *headings" are bad
| 10:50:11 PM
|-
| Helen Foster 
| Tim's concerns: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457
| 10:50:12 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| yep scorm and LTI are the same situation
| 10:50:17 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| those two have "headings" inside the content areas, they are exceptions
| 10:50:39 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| It seemed like just a small change in presentation, something users could get used to and which we could hide with css if we really didn't want to change presentation for learners.
| 10:50:40 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| so they need to be handled specially
| 10:50:43 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| .
| 10:50:54 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| double yay for somebody working on book!
| 10:51:02 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| There is still some duplication with navbar/headings, but I think that's very debatable as a good/bad thing
| 10:51:27 PM
|-
| Helen Foster 
| book will be really good as shown in https://docs.moodle.org/dev/HTML_Guidelines - on the learnmoodle site it didn't look good at all with the book name missing
| 10:51:39 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Book is pretty terrible right now with a screen reader.
| 10:51:45 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Is there a 'screenreader solution' for those duplicate headings
| 10:52:06 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| I support changing headings for the sake of consistency. Theme developers might have a few minutes of work to do to adjust if maintaining existing look is imperative, but consistency is so important.
| 10:52:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| where we could hide one (sounds horrible.. but if you look at the actual page)
| 10:52:23 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| Why does it need special handling for screen readers?
| 10:52:36 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Amy
| 10:52:39 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Jason, I hope it's still the theme having the full control over it, right?
| 10:52:45 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| damyonw: when we've got the same text repeated twice
| 10:52:57 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| It's the same issue for sighted users - so IMO we need to fix it for everyone
| 10:53:17 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| the problem for screenreaders is if they get things twice, it's annoying
| 10:53:21 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yes, its worse for screen readers though
| 10:53:30 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| worse than just seeing it twice
| 10:53:33 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| (Im talking about the scorm/LTI headings)
| 10:53:41 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| yeah, thats what Iw as trying to get at
| 10:53:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| whats the link to the forum page
| 10:53:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| let me find it
| 10:53:52 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| http://qa.moodle.net/mod/forum/view.php?id=1
| 10:54:13 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| If we don't make heading hierarchy consistent, we screw with theming on *every page*. This is a per-module issue.
| 10:54:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Petr Å koda: more book related work - https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=mod_klassenbuch
| 10:54:42 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Policies: https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MDL%20AND%20component%20%3D%20Policy%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Closed%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
| 10:54:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| No problem with consistent, but maybe it should consistently not duplicate headers, instead of consistently duplicating them
| 10:54:50 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Amy can you mention that on the forum discussion I linked to?
| 10:55:16 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| no JS fallback rule falls - mega party
| 10:55:36 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242457#p1056543
| 10:55:38 PM
|-
| Mary Cooch 
| (lag) links get posted here and then I hear people saying they are about to post a link
| 10:55:45 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| @Jason, yes, I saw that come through and haven't come back to it yet. Will do.
| 10:55:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| lol, thats a hell of a lag
| 10:55:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Martin, we cant' see any links in the youtube feed?
| 10:55:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Thanks Amy
| 10:55:59 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| in fact, we're still stuck on Jason's screen Martin Dougiamas
| 10:56:20 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| MDL-41535
| 10:56:40 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-41535 - POLICY: A non-javascript fallback is not required for new features provided that WCAG 2 AAA is met.V: 0, W: 14, Type: Bug, Assignee: Martin Dougiamas, Priority: Major, Status: Closed
| 10:56:40 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| AA*A*, seriously? heh
| 10:56:49 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| sam https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d?authuser=0&hl=en
| 10:56:58 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/0b44be392e4df0471144f85be46439b5a20d8c5d - () Unknown.
| 10:56:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (btw, off topic -thanks Jason for breaking the amy/jason avatar clash :P )
| 10:57:17 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| This backup and restore stuff is awesome!
| 10:57:34 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Heh. Sorry, @jason, I just couldn't part with mine.
| 10:57:37 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| Hopefully sam can talk about it
| 10:57:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| I can talk about it in here if you like, don't think I can get into hangout
| 10:57:55 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| lol, blame my wife for that - she told me my profile pic wasn't "professional" enough lol
| 10:57:55 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| yeah - that's about a 30 second lag here
| 10:58:01 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| s/blame/thank/
| 10:58:08 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| over 1min here
| 10:58:08 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| can someone get out of the hangout for sam to join?
| 10:58:25 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| congrats on the backup/restore issues!
| 10:58:38 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| there are only 5 of the slots full Dan
| 10:58:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Anything else?
| 10:58:46 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| All I wanted to say about the backup/restore was basically - there are a bunch of changes in 2.6 I did to show progress in backup/restore, this should basically work, nobody needs to do anything in plugins particularly (unless you've done something strange).
| 10:58:47 PM
|-
| Eric Merrill 
| And good progress reporting - works well on load balanced slots
| 10:58:49 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| and look at that, finishing on time it seems
| 10:59:08 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Yeah, lots of good stuff happening on backup & restore for 2.6.
| 10:59:12 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 24/7 devchat!
| 10:59:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| kudos Sam and OU for putting all that work into backup
| 10:59:28 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
|
| 10:59:34 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Were the proposed changes to JS coding standards covered?
| 10:59:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| I keep meaning to ask - why have you started using backup? :P
| 10:59:40 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I've started discussing https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Javascript/Coding_style
| 10:59:42 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| sure I was glad they finally let me do it
| 10:59:43 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Re: andrew?
| 10:59:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| But they're not finalised. If people have input there's a forum discussion at http://moodle.org/course/view.php?id=5
| 10:59:58 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Backup issue -- https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38189
| 11:00:04 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| (meta)
| 11:00:12 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| dan - we've always used backup backend (not for backup, for e.g. copying course to new presentations). Just the issues got harder to bear.
| 11:00:18 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Major lag is present today
| 11:00:27 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
|
| 11:00:29 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| Ah sorry
| 11:00:33 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
|
| 11:00:36 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| yeah lag makes this not good
| 11:00:38 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Thanks everyone, 2.6 is looking really good so far.
| 11:00:46 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| Why Andrew - that link goes to the course page
| 11:00:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| seems normal lag to me
| 11:00:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Davis 
| Good night all
| 11:00:51 PM
|-
| Yair Spielmann 
| Thanks all
| 11:00:52 PM
|-
| danbennett 
| Roll on 2.6!
| 11:00:57 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas 
| cheers
| 11:00:59 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese 
| thanks
| 11:00:59 PM
|-
| Jérôme Mouneyrac 
| Thanks
| 11:01:01 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| bah oops - srry Jason
| 11:01:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Who is Yair?
| 11:01:07 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=242639
| 11:01:10 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| we should've had introductions
| 11:01:11 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| btw, re backup, thanks to all the other developers (hq etc) who helped reviewing those zillions of issues
| 11:01:14 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| and why are we using camelCase for the names of things in Javascript?
| 11:01:21 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| that just seems silly
| 11:01:26 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Jason: no it does not
| 11:01:37 PM
|-
| raylawrence
| bye
| 11:01:38 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| we bucked the trend for php, despite it being common in php ...
| 11:01:46 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Multiple calendar support was added - read abt it at MDL-18375, shouldn't affect anyone here if you don't use anything other than Gregorian.
| 11:01:50 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-18375 - Displaying and selecting dates throughout Moodle should allow the use of multiple calendars.V: 138, W: 48, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Mark Nelson, Priority: Major, Status: Closed
| 11:01:50 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| I've upgraded my perf testing site with current version + a run comparison of 25 and master (note results are not fiable, coz i was doing different things in the laptop while they ran). Just to let you play. http://127.0.0.1/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862&timestamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08
| 11:01:53 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Night
| 11:02:03 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| we should keep things consistent with out other guidlines - css and php
| 11:02:04 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| 127.0.0.1
| 11:02:07 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| Jason, there is JS guideline draft
| 11:02:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| really eloy
| 11:02:09 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| grrr
| 11:02:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Eloy: n00b
| 11:02:19 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| DavidMudrak: that's what I am discussing now
| 11:02:23 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| bye
| 11:02:27 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| the reasoning is to be consistent with YUI which makes perfect sense to me
| 11:02:28 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| if you clicked that link, eloy just ownz0red your computer
| 11:02:38 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda 
| http://n00b/~stronk7 does not work either
| 11:02:45 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| ah, I hadn't thought of that
| 11:02:46 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Jason, that's part of the proposal and is discussed in both the forum thread, and the wiki
| 11:02:56 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| idiots
| 11:03:03 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| really, YUI style next to MoodlePHP style lookes weird
| 11:03:08 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| lol
| 11:03:09 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| now i'm not going to paste the public one! lol
| 11:03:12 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| http://ci.stronk7.com:8787/~stronk7/perf/?timestamps[]=1382452642862&timestamps[]=1382451569987&filters[baseversion]=2013051402.08
| 11:03:20 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| yay
| 11:03:33 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| (link works)
| 11:03:36 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| yeah, I would like to see us using camelCase throughout moodle, but I am just a HQ minion :P
| 11:03:40 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| another one
| 11:03:40 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| lol
| 11:03:41 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| ? sitecommit:Â 129ceb5 on demand release 2.5beta+
| 11:03:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| anyway, I am getting up for work in 6 hours
| 11:03:59 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| (From the "After" column)
| 11:04:03 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler 
| so good night all
| 11:04:08 PM
|-
| David Mudrák 
| good night
| 11:04:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| oh yea sleep
| 11:04:22 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal 
| Night
| 11:04:26 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| good night everyone
| 11:04:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| I'm essentailyl questioning that issue the best place to change from camelCase into moodle_case
| 11:04:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| So please: views, feedback, etc. camelCase is the most contentious part, but not the only
| 11:04:46 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Note: camelcase in php is not under debate.
| 11:04:53 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Indeed - just in JS
| 11:05:15 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| heh I prefer camelCase as well, but really don't mind which one people decide on for JS guidelines. What version are these guidelines for, 2.6+?
| 11:05:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (you guys do enough refactoring already ;P)
| 11:05:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| or 2.7+?
| 11:05:32 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| sam marshall: Once they're enforced, all new JS I presume
| 11:05:42 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| We have a bit of a hodge-podge in existing JS in Moodle
| 11:05:50 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| OK
| 11:06:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (BTW I can't believe this is news to people, after posting in the gdf, this chat AND integration exposed )
| 11:06:34 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| and it's been tweeted
| 11:06:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| you should be following integration exposed, people
| 11:06:52 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Dan: slam your fist on a table for emphasis!
| 11:07:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| *slam*
| 11:07:15 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols 
| Andrew Nicols disappears. Please though, commetns and feedback on that issue
| 11:07:19 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| What? A loud sound just woke me...
| 11:07:41 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt 
| I'm off to bed. Zzzzz. (wave)
| 11:07:55 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| jfilip: 2.5beta+ = me an idiot
| 11:08:32 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Oh, yeah, I see that now in master. ;)
| 11:10:58 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| cya!
| 11:11:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| http://git.moodle.org/gw?p=moodle.git;a=commit;h=34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c
| 11:12:19 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot 
| http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/34fb3545eae9315324351ee1076cd2f7ac67339c - (Dan Poltawski) on demand release 2.6beta+ master.
| 11:12:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| lol
| 11:12:43 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Woo!
| 11:13:33 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| I'm going to revert that, rewriting history. Does not follow the commit rules at all!
| 11:13:37 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| (thanks dan)
| 11:13:46 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| just jealous of jfilip
| 11:14:33 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Yeah, don't steal my thunder, Eloy! =)
| 11:14:49 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| haha
| 11:14:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| (actually I assumed that eloy had messed up his site and he alerted me to the problem, so I suppose its equally shared)
| 11:16:23 PM
|-
| sam marshall 
| sam marshall subscribes to 'integration exposed'
| 11:21:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| note that Sam H has been doing lots of good work on automating the release process so such prizes are quite exclusive, perhaps never to be claimed again :D
| 11:24:04 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| jfilip makes note to propose the "Dan owes me a beer" badge for moodle.org
| 11:26:08 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| fine with me as long as I can award the badge 'Owes dan a beer'
| 11:26:54 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| it would be great to have a "owed beers badges generator" uhm...
| 11:26:55 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| I think it only makes sense for it to be a two-way street, yeah.
| 11:27:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| Dan Poltawski makes a note to request multiple badges awarded to same person
| 11:27:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| of same type
| 11:27:34 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| you can issue different labels each time
| 11:27:43 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| Badge multipliers.
| 11:27:44 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
|
| 11:27:44 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| the best thing is that you can't revoke a badge once its been issued
| 11:28:18 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| hehe
| 11:28:26 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| so every time I see Tim, I'm sorted for the night
| 11:28:34 PM
|-
| Justin Filip 
| "Congratulations, you have found a bug of +3 Dan owes you a beer."
| 11:28:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=assignee%20%3D%20timhunt%20and%20text%20~beer%20and%20Integrator%20%3D%20poltawski
| 11:30:36 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski 
| damnit, the beers are all from Eloy
| 11:31:23 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente 
| I would not take that literally, lol.
| 11:33:29 PM
|-
| }

Developer meeting July 2013

2014-01-17T02:33:48Z

Xymoodle: Updated video links

[[Developer meetings]] > July 2013 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2013&month=7&day=30&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 30 July 2013]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://www.youtube.com/moodlehq Moodle YouTube channel]
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we focused on Moodle development happening outside Moodle HQ.

== Meeting video ==

<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9H4JgybZWc</mediaplayer>

== Meeting notes ==

=== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 Form mock-submit] (Jamie Pratt)===
* The Data generator was being used for testing quizzes, however there needed to be a way to check that creation of questions from forms as if they'd been submitted by a user.
* Mock form submission works by injecting data into the POST data.
* This works at a lower level than Behat tests.
* It is now possible to test form validation in unit tests.

=== [[GSOC/2013|GSoC]] ===
* Midway through this year's GSoC. Mid-term evaluations going in now.
* All projects are proceeding except one.
* Requests for testers of project code should be coming soon. Keep an eye on [[GSOC/2013|GSoC]] project pages.

=== Backup improvements ===
* Fileless backups are now used when importing content from one course to another.
* Backup is still an issue with big RAM usage.
* The OU wants to add progress indicators during backups to prevent browser time-outs.
* Russell Smith has introduced some performance improvements that are, among other things, speeding up backups by as much as 25%.

=== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40738 Accessibility push] (Martin Dougiamas) ===
* A number of big collections of issues have been reported that came form accessibility reviews.
* About half of these issues were done in January, but a remaining few are not yet complete.
* Some people are wanting the accessibility work to be completed and threatening not to support Moodle otherwise.
* FRONTEND team working on a chunk but more help is needed.

=== [[Server_clustering_improvements_proposal|Server clustering]] (Petr Skoda) ===
* A new localcachedir has been introduced.
* There is an ongoing meeting happening on Wednesdays at 2pm (Perth time) about clustering.

=== [https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20mdl%20and%20labels%20in%20%28patch%29%20and%20status%20%3D%20open Patched issues], [[Peer_reviewing_checklist|peer reviewing]] and the [https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=13051 Peer review dashboard] (Michael de Raadt) ===
* With the welcomed contribution of more developers, bottlenecks have been developing in the integration process around peer reviews.
* Recognised developers are asked to consider looking at [https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20mdl%20and%20labels%20in%20%28patch%29%20and%20status%20%3D%20open issues with patches] and pushing them through the process.
* Developers asking for peer reviews are asked to consider reciprocating by peer reviewing of other issues waiting. Issues can be found on the [https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=13051 Peer review dashboard] and the [[Peer_reviewing_checklist|Peer review checklist]] should be followed.

=== [[Bug_triage#Meta_issues_.28Epics_and_sub-tasks.29|Epics, issues and sub-tasks]] (Michael de Raadt) ===
When grouping issues together:
* use epics to group existing issues into a common project (this allows individual ranking and implementation), and
* use sub-tasks to break a single issue into chunks of work (that can be worked on at the same time).

=== Moodle 2.6 progress ===

==== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39665 Mobile device improvements] and [[Mobile_device_support|support]] (FRONTEND) ====
* The FRONTEND team did a lot of exploratory work with mobile devices, [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39665 raised a lot of issues] and have worked on many.
* Full-screen pop-ups are now used for dialogues at small screen sizes.
* TinyMCE improvements have been made for resizing, so it can now shrink; there are reduced toolbars starting with a single bar that can be toggled to three bars.
* Reducing the number of activities next to each other on the course page into a menu of editing icons.

==== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39854 Automatic class loading] (Petr Skoda) ====
* "You will love it, it just works."
* Put the class in the right place and you can use the class without explicitly including files.
* Reduces memory usage by including only necessary classes.
* Allows shortcuts in unit tests.

==== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39797 Events] and [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37658 logging] (BACKEND) ====
* The old events system was simple, but didn't follow rules.
* The new system is class based.
* It allows listening by handlers.
* Logging can be handled by handlers.
* [[Logging_2|Logging spec]] is being finalised.

==== [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31776 Alternate names fields] and how to output names (Adrian Greeve) ====
* We now have additional name fields, which is particularly useful for non-Romanic languages.
* The name display setting has moved and allows flexible description of names using place-holders.
* Developers outputting names need to [[Additional_name_fields|ensure that name fields]] are passed to the fullname function.
* Use the get_all_user_name_fields() or user_picture::fields() functions to get these fields.

=== Other news ===
* The meeting time for this General Developer meeting will remain static. After attempting to rotate times, this timeslot was found to be the least objectionable. Also, now that we have reliable recordings, having we felt it was possible to have a constant time. Apologies to anyone adversely affected.
* After delaying the Hack-a-thon twice, we have decided it will be cancelled. While there was some interest, the effort needed to run the Hack-a-thon appeared greater than the benefits that would be gained, and we are all quite busy.

=== Some questions ===
# What is Moodle HQ stand on supporting metadata for Course(s), Resources and Activities (Moodle HUB?) [https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34634?focusedCommentId=234394&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-234394 MDL_34634] Enabling OAI-PMH Harvesters to catalog metadata of resource off a Moodle system (Moodle HUB?)
#* LTI has some. Worth looking at the Global Search project.
# What is Moodle HQ stand on: Experience API (TINCAN API), CMI-5, implementing LTI (v2), future of SCORM ?
#* SCORM 2004 = no (still using SCORM 1.2), LTIv2 = when it comes (MoodleRooms), TINCAN = through events/logging APIs, but no foreseeable use yet
# Is theme/clean the new standard theme for a new Moodle install? (Are we deprecating all other themes?)
#* Not yet, but we want it to be. No plans to deprecate old themes.

==Attendees==
Amanda Doughty, Andrew Nicols, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Marsden, Dan Poltawski, Daniele Cordella, David Mudrák, Davo Smith, Frédéric Massart, Helen Foster, Jamie Pratt, Jason Fowler, Jenny Gray, Juan Leyva, Julian Ridden, Luke Carrier, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Martin Dougiamas, Mark Johnson, Matthew Spurrier, Michael Aherne, Michael Blake, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Nadav Kavalerchik, Peter Bulmer, Petr Škoda, Prateek Sachan, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Rossiani Wijaya, Ruslan Kablan, Russel Smith, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshal, Stephen Bourget, Shane Elliott, Tim Hunt, Tomasz Muras, Yairspi... (plus many more via YouTube and Twitter)

==Meeting chat log==
<div style="height:300px;overflow:auto;">
{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| Hello everyone
| 8:27:00 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| is anyone listening to youtube here as well?
| 8:28:47 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| listening to youtube?
| 8:30:54 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| to the hangout video
| 8:31:25 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It hasn't started yet
| 8:31:32 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Morning Sam
| 8:46:51 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Morning
| 8:47:09 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| wow Sam, you're up early!
| 8:47:22 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| I know! :D (im not an early morning person aye)
| 8:47:51 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| or did you just not go to bed last night?
| 8:48:10 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| Good afternoon!
| 8:48:23 PM
|-
| Jamie Pratt
| hi all
| 8:48:39 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Hi.
| 8:49:12 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| I've had an hours sleep. I did that horrible little "airport" sleep where you want to sleep but you know you've got to get up soon
| 8:49:17 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| Hi all
| 8:52:37 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| martin is just googling how to start a hangout...
| 8:54:25 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7b562fa4854bfcc37850484afa21d3dfa484771e
| 8:55:10 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/7b562fa4854bfcc37850484afa21d3dfa484771e - () Unknown.
| 8:55:10 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| That's the link to take part on video
| 8:55:32 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| yes it is
| 8:55:46 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| And there's a maxium number of people taking part
| 8:55:50 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| so anyone speaking get on there
| 8:55:54 PM
|-
| lukecarrier
| hangouts on air stream is here:
| 8:55:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Andrew Nicols gets off
| 8:55:58 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| yeah prolly
| 8:56:06 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Is there an agenda for this meeting somewhere?
| 8:56:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Developer_meeting_July_2013
| 8:57:02 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Aha cool thanks Andrew
| 8:58:21 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| thanks
| 8:58:27 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Can other people view the YouTube stream?
| 9:01:47 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| no
| 9:01:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| not yet
| 9:01:51 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Hi All
| 9:01:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| K thanks
| 9:01:59 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| They were a kickstart project weren't they?
| 9:02:37 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| starting now
| 9:03:02 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Stream
| 9:03:39 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| cool, I'll add that theme to moosh for generate-theme command
| 9:04:01 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Just so you know ,there's quite a lag
| 9:04:12 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| there must be, yeah
| 9:04:26 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| 3
| 9:04:30 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| There stream is coming through
| 9:04:35 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| It is
| 9:04:39 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| all visible here
| 9:04:40 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| moodle Meetings: Hi Robot!
| 9:04:41 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| but there's probably a 10-20 second lag
| 9:04:43 PM
|-
| sbourget
| It's working here
| 9:04:46 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Massive
| 9:04:47 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| 3
| 9:05:01 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| 3
| 9:05:01 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Its working now
| 9:05:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| 1
| 9:05:09 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| 2
| 9:05:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| 3
| 9:05:12 PM
|-
| Amanda Doughty
| 3
| 9:05:14 PM
|-
| lukecarrier
| 3
| 9:05:16 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| 3
| 9:05:18 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| twice
| 9:05:21 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| wow that's a minute nearly
| 9:05:39 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| 3
| 9:05:40 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Say and type "NOW" at the same moment
| 9:05:40 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Who is hiding off-screen on the right?
| 9:05:45 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Lead us off Jamie
| 9:05:49 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Michael d looks like a real pilot
| 9:06:01 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Adrian is off screen
| 9:06:05 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Reload the agenda, I just added an item.
| 9:06:17 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| it's not changing away from HQ as full screen
| 9:06:33 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Hi all.
| 9:06:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176
| 9:09:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| MDL-40176
| 9:09:35 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed
| 9:09:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| This can also be used to test the form vaidation.
| 9:10:55 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| did you consider making public API for moodle.org/plugins ? eg would be nice to query for things like "give me all packages released for 2.5" using REST
| 9:12:20 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| There is, basically, but Aparup, Eloy or David Mudrak might have to explain the details â€¦ I don't think it's documented. You could look at what Moodle is doing.
| 9:14:28 PM
|-
| Jamie Pratt
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/lib/formslib.php_Testing
| 9:14:45 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| forms lib is a crazy beast ..
| 9:14:46 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Nice, a quick way of adding many many random submissions and test how things perform if you list the forms submitted
| 9:15:44 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| TomekMuras: At the moment, we have very basic API that is used by Moodle sites. There is a plan to extend it as needed, should there be a demand and some good use cases
| 9:15:49 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| Thanks
| 9:16:07 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It's finding the right one to switch to
| 9:16:07 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| I mean "would be nice" is not strong use case per-se
| 9:16:16 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| The API is OK. I htink we can fix thinigs with evolutionary improvements.
| 9:16:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| We talked about moving to a new one, and decided we'd have to provide a b/c layer
| 9:16:28 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| we wanted to replace the quickform backend and leave moodleform api
| 9:16:28 PM
|-
| Jamie Pratt
| https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/compare/wip_MDL-40176_v4
| 9:16:33 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed
| 9:16:34 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| I agree, I was thinking about it because we do need one already anyway - for moodle
| 9:16:43 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Most of us can't say anything.
| 9:16:45 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| marina was the only HQ person in our discussion at hackfest
| 9:16:46 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| But Petr Å koda probably has strongest views on it
| 9:16:57 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| this diff shows it https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/compare/wip_MDL-40176_v4
| 9:17:08 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40176 - introduce $form->mock_submit(); method to test form submission V: 0, W: 6, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Jamie Pratt, Priority: Minor, Status: Closed
| 9:17:08 PM
|-
| Jamie Pratt
| https://github.com/jamiepratt/moodle/commit/2fba1be14986f69887bf486723565139d73091ad
| 9:17:10 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/2fba1be14986f69887bf486723565139d73091ad - () Unknown.
| 9:17:10 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| the API is convoluted, you have to go back and forth between files to find out what is happening
| 9:17:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| There are some dumb things with accessing things by index instead of by name
| 9:18:02 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| wouldn't changing the formslib affect huge amounts of code?
| 9:18:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| bmbrands: hence a b/c layer
| 9:18:29 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| I discovered that when I was implementing the new icon in the date selector element for 2.5, which you would think would be rather easy
| 9:18:34 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Moodle Meetings: one thing to that list would an availability to construct forms on client side
| 9:19:03 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No. We wrote client-side validation ourselves.
| 9:19:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| yeah - we need to have some way to do ajax forms
| 9:19:29 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| have you seen forms in symfony?
| 9:19:32 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| I have no idea if / how re-usable they are tbh
| 9:19:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| I can't remember how much we chatted them
| 9:20:21 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| there is a document somewhere
| 9:20:30 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| People in that working group were: Mark Nielsen, Marina Glancy, Amy Groshek, and myself IIRC.
| 9:20:34 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Perth_Hackfest_October_2012/Forms_API according to the breakout session in the Hackfest, it was agreed that quickforms needed replacement.
| 9:20:37 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| I always find that with mforms I wish its output could be abstracted and in turn for forms to be interpretable to JS
| 9:20:40 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| The form library seems fine if you are simply creating a form, but once you have to actually go into the code to find out what's happening it's all over the place
| 9:20:52 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| There is a way of doing AJAX forms, it's just not very elegant (involves output buffers and regular expressions)
| 9:20:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Ah Andrew Davis
| 9:21:02 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| can HQ please click the image of the person presenting
| 9:22:18 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Which one is AWOL?
| 9:22:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/GSOC/2013
| 9:22:35 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| yep sorry will have to stay awake!
| 9:22:38 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| so they take centre stage of the hangout
| 9:22:48 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Troy Lee was the one who got busy with other things.
| 9:22:58 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| the feedback for global serch is welcome
| 9:23:13 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| the link is...
| 9:23:18 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| loving the work done so far on global search
| 9:23:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| See above.
| 9:23:38 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Pronunciation evaluation question type
| 9:23:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I already said. Troy.
| 9:23:43 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233166
| 9:23:46 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Now
| 9:23:49 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| can I assume there will be a block to go alongside the local plugin when finished?
| 9:23:57 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Cool idea.
| 9:23:59 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| Besides that GSOC for global search is going fine - we're on track
| 9:24:03 PM
|-
| Prateek Sachan
| Julian (JJB): yes, there will be a block for that
| 9:24:14 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| thanx
| 9:24:23 PM
|-
| lukecarrier
| now
| 9:24:33 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| now
| 9:24:34 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| now
| 9:24:35 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Now
| 9:24:35 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| now
| 9:24:38 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| now
| 9:24:44 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| but when will then be now?
| 9:24:51 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| my lag was more from the keyboard than the internet connection
| 9:24:56 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| now
| 9:25:00 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| 45 seconds lag here
| 9:25:00 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| julian hopes someone here picks up the gratuitous spaceballs reference
| 9:25:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I did not hear Martin say Now.
| 9:25:21 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| sorry, i didnt realise you actually wanted us all to say now
| 9:25:26 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| I can hear the discussion about the lag, but I didn't hear the word 'now'
| 9:25:33 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| lol
| 9:25:35 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| but just a few to get a general idea.
| 9:25:43 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| lol
| 9:25:43 PM
|-
| Amanda Doughty
| I did not hear 'now'
| 9:25:44 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it's too late now
| 9:25:47 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| lol
| 9:25:50 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| NOW
| 9:25:52 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I had a play with ajax forms a while ago: https://github.com/damyon/moodle/compare/d28d214167bfe9360206c3a5a5f2116f434d99ad...WIP_MFORM_DIALOGUE
| 9:26:01 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| http://github.com/moodle/moodle/commit/d28d214167bfe9360206c3a5a5f2116f434d99ad - (Dan Poltawski) Merge branch 'w08_https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38154_m25_delperf' of git://github.com/skodak/moodle
| 9:26:02 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| We really need to get a proper solution in place for ajax forms
| 9:26:21 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Maybe the BACKEND team can tackle forms again in 2.7
| 9:26:26 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Yes please
| 9:26:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| ForumNG has Ajax forms.
| 9:26:37 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Output needs to be abstracted for that to happen
| 9:26:40 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Yay renderers
| 9:26:42 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| BUt it is not pretty
| 9:26:42 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| That branch had mforms in dialogues working and submitting via ajax (including tinymce)
| 9:27:01 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| https://github.com/marxjohnson/moodle-block_messageteacher/blob/dev/message.php Displays and processes a form, via AJAX or syncronously. JS is show_form()/submit_form() in https://github.com/marxjohnson/moodle-block_messageteacher/blob/dev/yui/src/messageteacher/js/messageteacher.js
| 9:27:49 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| wow that crashed my chrome
| 9:28:05 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| jason waves at Romo
| 9:28:35 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| where can I find that list of issues ?
| 9:28:41 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| Ooh accessibility. Anything that is relevant to my block? https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=block_accessibility
| 9:29:09 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40738
| 9:29:19 PM
|-
| Shane Elliott
| affects government departments too
| 9:29:30 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| i.e. can I add/change stuff in my block to help?
| 9:29:33 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Basically backend is the A-team.
| 9:29:41 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| Oh wow, that's a comprehensive list
| 9:29:58 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| By definition the backend team is the B-Team
| 9:30:02 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the Frontend Team is the A-Team
| 9:30:12 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| user's see us first :D
| 9:30:19 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| real question is....who is the Mr-T of the Moodle A-Team ;)
| 9:30:39 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Mr-T?
| 9:30:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Andrew Nicols is X
| 9:30:52 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| I pity the fool
| 9:30:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| haha
| 9:30:59 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| I pity the fool who use jquery
| 9:31:03 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Mr-T would be Damyon or Sam
| 9:31:06 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| This is an ordered list?
| 9:31:06 PM
|-
| Amanda Doughty
| hee hee
| 9:31:07 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| interface like-ability
| 9:31:49 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Awww - we don't get to see you Petr?
| 9:31:52 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Is there anything stopping us from using local caches for request caches?
| 9:33:06 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| Hello
| 9:33:10 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| "Should help" That is not very reassuring.
| 9:33:20 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| One woudl hope that it was tested before it was integrated.
| 9:33:29 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| nadavkav: Video stream for dev meeting is
| 9:33:46 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| we started some meetings on Wednesday afternoons 2PM (Perth time) about caching â€¦ if anyone is interested come here then
| 9:34:34 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (and clustering)
| 9:34:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Why have the partners been discussing this in private?
| 9:35:09 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| request cache is for one request only, right? you keep it in memory only
| 9:35:11 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Why does OU discuss things in private?
| 9:35:25 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Petr Å koda: ah true
| 9:35:28 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| is dev chat private?
| 9:35:41 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| local cache is for things like languages, theme stuff, JS
| 9:35:51 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| it's a conspiracy.
| 9:36:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| MArtin, we don't discuss changes we want to make to Moodle core in private.
| 9:36:39 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| that reminds me petr..is there possibly a way to tie JS cache clearing with theme cache? Im facing issues with themes upgrading using js files.
| 9:37:04 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| the chats were mostly here in devchat tim - there have been some awesome conversations :D
| 9:37:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| I think the discussions that happened in dev chat were actually just everyone working out what they thought
| 9:37:23 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Julian (JJB): Purge caches does both
| 9:37:29 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Oh, that was just netspot, not "Partners"
| 9:37:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Julian (JJB): If you bump the theme version, IIRC that clears cache..?
| 9:38:02 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| Jordan was involved, representing Catalyst
| 9:38:23 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| but theme developer mode does not. bumping version does not clear the JS cache. Just theme cache
| 9:38:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Julian (JJB): set jsrev = -1 in config
| 9:38:43 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| not integrating issues with patches is a serious issue - it discourages developers
| 9:38:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Peer_reviewing_checklist
| 9:39:03 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| What Debian did was to ask for peer reviews as well.
| 9:39:30 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| And the dashboard: https://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=13051
| 9:39:34 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| There is even a bit of culture there like: "I'll integrate your change if you go & peer review some other patch"
| 9:40:10 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Peer_reviewing_checklist
| 9:40:20 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Tomek, that wouldn't fit too easily with our weekly integration workflow â€¦
| 9:41:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It also means that issues affecting multiple components give longer for other component leads to notice issues
| 9:43:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| That is a pain for compoent maintiners, but a worthwhile change.
| 9:43:33 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| It would be cool to have this for the plugin database as well
| 9:43:36 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| there is a "review" possibility in plugins database
| 9:44:00 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| @bmbrands I'll keep that in mind
| 9:44:02 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| uh, good idea but sounds like a bit of over-kill. I'd hope that component mainainers know what they do ;)
| 9:44:14 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| what's that weird sound I hear sometimes, sounds like an electronic parrot ..
| 9:44:27 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| bmbrands - it's the ipod on the desk
| 9:44:46 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| it is romo
| 9:45:00 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| That review area is rarely used on the plugin database. right now it's easier to look at the github project that goes with the plugin
| 9:45:18 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| hahaha cool, I love robots
| 9:46:26 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Plugins already have no wait time after the first acceptance.
| 9:46:28 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| So, once you get your plugin accepted you can now safely write the dodgy code. ;)
| 9:47:16 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Correct
| 9:47:30 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| And when that is discovered you will be banned for life
| 9:47:44 PM
|-
| Amanda Doughty
| harsh
| 9:47:54 PM
|-
| Shane Elliott
| uh oh
| 9:47:55 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| @bmbrands that has been because we have few trusted reviewers - the idea was to have trusted reviewers write a general review of a particular version of a plugin. As Martin mentions, if folks want to modify code there is no peer-review of the code done but we could use a similar process when first looking at the code
| 9:47:58 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| ah great, so now I can create some prism modules Great, need to call the NSA to see if they are interested
| 9:48:03 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| lol
| 9:49:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| No need to call them, Bas, just send an email to yourself.
| 9:50:29 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| nice URL ;)
| 9:50:43 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Haha
| 9:51:13 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @andrew: I think they just turned on my webcam
| 9:52:13 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I added that, but can Andrew talk?
| 9:52:51 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| Lucky I am in China tonight. Safe from Prism here. My data is 100% safe
| 9:52:57 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Andrew did file-less backups
| 9:53:15 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| My Russ is doing profiling and fixing performance.
| 9:53:26 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| The OU wants to output progress indication during backups, to prevent browser time-outs.
| 9:53:48 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| +1 for progress indication
| 9:54:24 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Cool.
| 9:54:29 PM
|-
| Tomasz Muras
| timhunt very good idea, I can see that being a problem v. often
| 9:54:30 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Ticket for fileless backup/restore? Is it in master?
| 9:55:20 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40579
| 9:55:29 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| rexlorenzo@gmail.com: yes it's in master
| 9:55:29 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Look, and Epic
| 9:55:33 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| an Epic
| 9:55:36 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| beautiful news on backup/restore improvements!!!
| 9:55:54 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thanks Andrew. Well done on zero notice.
| 9:55:56 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| it's 11pm
| 9:56:00 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| well almost midnight
| 9:56:07 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Backup has lots of circular references beteween classes, which confuses PHP's garbage collection.
| 9:56:45 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| (Well, reference counting)
| 9:56:49 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| +1 from me, for the quick backup button
| 9:57:25 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| Maybe if the backup/restore executed in backgreound in advance while the user is still clicking the current UI, it would "feel" much more quicker
| 9:57:43 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| What was the issue # for that meta issue?
| 9:57:48 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| There are plugins that offer a 1 click restore with defaults set: https://github.com/lsuits/simple_restore
| 9:57:51 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| maybe minimise it as we do with other settings pages now
| 9:57:52 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| definitely +1 from me too
| 9:58:03 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| Thanks rexlorenzo
| 9:58:36 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| It would be great to allow tinyMCE themes as well
| 10:00:50 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| Have you check RTL issues on Mobile?
| 10:01:02 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Yes.
| 10:01:09 PM
|-
| nadavkav
|
| 10:01:19 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| (Love your work, Nadav.)
| 10:01:28 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| MDL-40770
| 10:01:59 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40770 - Implement Icons for TinyMCE 3.* V: 0, W: 1, Type: Task, Assignee: Jason Fowler, Priority: Minor, Status: Development in progress
| 10:02:00 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| (Love you watching over my work! any Mary too)
| 10:02:00 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| these edit icons really need people to look at them
| 10:02:36 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| it makes course editing look (and work) quite a bit different
| 10:03:02 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| please provide input, let us know if what we have implemented is easy to understand
| 10:03:03 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| I have been following the editing icon ticket, is it a user preference?
| 10:03:45 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| no - there are 2 admin settings (one for blocks, one for activities)
| 10:04:19 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| moosh is also working like this
| 10:05:58 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| beautiful news
| 10:06:14 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Very simplistic explanation on how to actually implement it haha.
| 10:06:16 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Andrew Nicols tries to catch up
| 10:07:00 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| (moosh - https://github.com/tmuras/moosh uses automatic class loading too)
| 10:09:00 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Well, if you are workign on add-ons that you want ot work in 2.5 and before, you can't easily use it yet
| 10:09:36 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| But autoloading is very cool
| 10:09:50 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| For reference: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Automatic_class_loading
| 10:09:56 PM
|-
| lukecarrier
| Lovely to see Moodle adopt functionality in PHP that makes plugin development work considerably cleaner and easier --great to see!
| 10:10:00 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40305
| 10:11:40 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| it describes the phpunit testcase autoloading
| 10:11:55 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Example of a new event - https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39956
| 10:13:13 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Why just specific events, or *
| 10:13:15 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Why not a more structured hierarchy of event types?
| 10:13:23 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Look at the diff in that URL to see the new implementation, compared to the old.
| 10:13:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Each event is an class, right?
| 10:14:42 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| yes.
| 10:14:49 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Why not use instanceof to work out which listeners to call?
| 10:14:58 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| because it would be slower
| 10:16:54 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| How much slower?
| 10:17:56 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| we get an event name, then get list of observers from array that contains them all indexed by event name
| 10:18:52 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| And, why does that only work for specific event names, or *?
| 10:19:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| At teh opint where you add an event listener to that array, you coudl use instanceof to work out other subsets of keys to add it to.
| 10:19:47 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| because it is enough for logging
| 10:19:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Logging is not the only use case.
| 10:19:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Plagiarism API woudl be another good case.
| 10:20:06 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Wants to listen to anything that is submit for grading.
| 10:20:15 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| if you want it make a proposal and create code
| 10:20:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I made the propsal before, and was ignored.
| 10:20:30 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| did you made the code too?
| 10:20:47 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| We appreciated your earlier feedback, Tim.
| 10:21:02 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No. I made hte suggestion before you wrote the code in a less good way.
| 10:21:03 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Michael D. One day you must explain to me how ignoring everything I say is appreciation.
| 10:21:30 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| I wouldn't say it was ignored.
| 10:21:51 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| Tim: if I disagree with your proposal I will not implement it, what is wrong with that?
| 10:22:09 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Show me one change made to the events or logging spec in response to one of my suggestions.
| 10:22:11 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| A lot of the justification of the Events changes came in response to your feedback.
| 10:22:38 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| in relation to alternate name fields, can the user in profile settings choose which they would prefer to display? i.e. a preferred first name
| 10:23:09 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| thanks for that answer
| 10:25:00 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| In the "Full name format", can you specify to use alternatename (if present), else use "normal" first and last name?
| 10:27:12 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Any news on what happend to https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Hack-a-thon_2013
| 10:27:54 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| yes
| 10:28:58 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| For the benefit of NZers, would someone from HQ like to reply to https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233006#p1013953 ?
| 10:29:02 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| I am asking about Moodle
| 10:29:19 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| if it can be supported in Moodle HUB, that's cool too
| 10:29:41 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| People want metadata on questions too.
| 10:29:58 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| For searching purposes
| 10:30:07 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| ok
| 10:30:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Could be like comments / files, etc.
| 10:31:01 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233166#p1013536
| 10:31:59 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| not yes
| 10:32:18 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| yet
| 10:32:21 PM
|-
| Michael Aherne
| Is SCORM slated for removal, or just no further development?
| 10:32:48 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| good
| 10:33:01 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| well the SCORM rewrite is in the GSOC list.
| 10:33:17 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| LTI v2 is in Public Draft currently - http://www.imsglobal.org/lti/
| 10:33:34 PM
|-
| Michael Aherne
| Good to know, thanks!
| 10:34:19 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| ok
| 10:34:59 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| Thank you
| 10:35:53 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Anyone using the clean theme as a base in production? We want to switch the our base theme, but is it really not that stable?
| 10:36:29 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| I have been so excited to work with bootstrap now
| 10:36:32 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| what? no more â€œwoodâ€ theme? :P
| 10:36:43 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Someone was working on a boostrap-based wood theme.
| 10:36:59 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Sorry again Kiwis
| 10:37:00 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| LOL we should've moaned loader?
| 10:37:25 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| You should just send a pack of nice coffee beans to each kiwi moodler.
| 10:37:28 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| are you keeping it around afterwards? Will it be a possible location for good perf data?
| 10:39:13 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| not sure about that yet
| 10:39:31 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| but the cluster is fully scripted
| 10:39:45 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| thanks for sharing with us
| 10:40:11 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| than everyone
| 10:40:21 PM
|-
| Damyon Wiese
| no lag here
| 10:40:25 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Nope, didn't experience lag either.
| 10:40:33 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| thanks i mean
| 10:40:35 PM
|-
| Amanda Doughty
| Very useful. Thanks
| 10:40:36 PM
|-
| Julian Ridden
| maybe eve â€œthantsâ€ :D
| 10:40:50 PM
|-
| nadavkav
| Thanks
| 10:40:51 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| thanks developers
| 10:41:01 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| thevelopers
| 10:41:04 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Night everyone
| 10:41:08 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Goodbye
| 10:41:09 PM
|-
| Shane Elliott
| good night from Beijing
| 10:41:11 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| g'nite
| 10:41:18 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| cya...gn
| 10:41:19 PM
|-
| Michael Aherne
| Thanks for that
| 10:41:20 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Ciao
| 10:41:21 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| good night
| 10:41:24 PM
|-
| Michael de Raadt
| Bye
| 10:41:31 PM
|-
| sbourget
| Bye
| 10:41:38 PM
|-
| yairspi
| Bye
| 10:41:48 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| good meeting, kudos to organisers
| 10:41:55 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| and hangout participants
| 10:42:07 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
|
| 10:42:11 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| While there are a lot of partners etc here, I have created a new certificate module which is in beta - read abt it at https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=229683
| 10:42:52 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| ok, now time to watch an episode of TNG. Night.
| 10:43:25 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| now!
| 10:59:29 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| (sorry was watching the first bits i missed jsut now on youtube )
| 10:59:54 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| see you all in the morning :/
| 11:04:39 PM
|}

Developer meeting April 2013

2014-01-17T02:30:12Z

Xymoodle: Updated video links

[[Developer meetings]] > April 2013 meeting notes

{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Time
| [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2013&month=4&day=23&hour=13&min=0&sec=0 13:00 UTC on Tuesday, 23 April 2013]
|-
| Meeting room
| [http://www.youtube.com/moodlehq Moodle YouTube channel]
|-
| Chat
| [https://moodle.org/local/chatlogs/info.php Regular Dev chat]
|-
| Twitter
| [https://twitter.com/search?q=%23moodledev #moodledev]
|}

In this meeting we focused on the impending Major release.

== Meeting video ==

<mediaplayer>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQyyE7dod4</mediaplayer>

== Meeting notes ==

===[https://docs.moodle.org/dev/images_dev/d/d3/hq-teams.pdf News from Moodle HQ] (Martin Dougiamas)===
* New HQ teams are being formed: Front-end, back-end, sites
* New focus and priorities in teams

===[[Moodle_2.5_release_notes|Moodle 2.5]]===
====[https://docs.moodle.org/25/en/New_features New features page]====
* Complements release notes
* Updated for every release
* Screenshots and quick overview
* The page to link to when sharing upcoming features

====[[OpenBadges_User_Documentation|Open Badges]] (Simon Coggins and Yuliya Bozhko)====
* Initiative from Mozilla for achievements across the Web
* Awards a badge that is an image but also a verifiable certificate
* Moodle can award badges and show badges from other sites
* Test site at <s>[http://openbadgestotara.elearning.catalyst.net.nz openbadgestotara.elearning.catalyst.net.nz]</s> Now decommissioned, use demo.moodle.net instead.
* Badges can be awarded at site-wide or course levels
* Create a badge in a course from the Admin menu and provide an image
* Awarded based on completion of course or activity
* Awards can be shared and connected to the Mozilla Backpack
* Mahara may become a Backpack provider in future

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38016 Bootstrap themes] (Martin Dougiamas)====
* Framework for responsive sites
* Now a new base theme for a new family of themes
* Will replace current base themes in future
* Not be the default theme in Moodle yet

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38509 Installation of new plugins from moodle.org] (David Mudrak)====
* Admin tool in Moodle
* Plugins found in the Directory can be downloaded, validated and installed
* Downloaded zip files can be installed and uninstalled from within Moodle without file access

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-30637 Short forms] (Ruslan Kabalin and Frédéric Massart)====
* Forms are broken into sections that can collapse
* Fieldsets with required fields, non-validating fields and forced open
* Developers should review all their forms to see that they still make sense
* Editor can be simplified to hide editor toolbars

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37009 Consistent course listing display] (Marina Glancy)====
* Course listings are now rendered consistently
* Themes will be affected by this, but theming should be more consistent in the future

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-15727 jQuery and jQuery UI supported in add-ons] (Petr Škoda)====
* JQuery library now available for plugins
* Not use by core

====[https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37127 Shifting our YUI] (Andrew Nicols)====
* [[Javascript/Shifter]]
** Should help to improve documentation and allow unit tests
** JS can be linted for possible errors

====[http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-35611 Behat tests] (David Monllaó)====
* [[Acceptance testing]]
* Human readable test instructions
* Tests can be run automatically in a browser
* About 100 QA tests have been now automated (more to come) https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLQA-5249
* Some assistance for test writers is provided by a Developer tool in Moodle 2.5
* [https://github.com/marinaglancy/moodle-tool_behatui Behat screenshotting tool]

====[https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=fixVersion%20in%20(%222.5%22)%20and%20component%20in%20(Assignment)%20and%20type%20%3D%20Improvement Assignment changes in 2.5] (Damyon Wiese)====
* Assignment code now validates with code checker
* More unit tests have been added
* Docs have been updated
* New feature: submission history
** Reattempts (manual or automatic)

===[[Moodle_Mobile_Release_Notes | Mobile app]] (Juan Leyva)===
* New version released with a more versions planned every two months
* App can be styled
* Push notifications to come

===[[GSOC|GSoC]] (Michael de Raadt)===
* Moodle has been accepted as a participating organisation
* Students are starting to submit applications to participate with Moodle
* Students may be found in forums now and in the future

==Attendees==
Adrian Greeve, Amy Groshek, Andrew Nicols, Ankit Agarwal, Anthony Borrow, Aparup Banerjee, Barbara Ramiro, Bas Brands, Damyon Wiese, Dan Poltawski, Daniele Cordella, Darryl Pogue, David Monllaó, David Mudrak, Davo Smith, Eloy Lafuente, Frédéric Massart, Gareth J Barnard, Helen Foster, Howard Miller, Jason Fowler, Jason Hardin, Jenny Gray, Jérôme Mouneyrac, Juan Leyva, Justin Filip, Marina Glancy, Mark Nelson, Martin Dougiamas, Mary Cooch, Mary Evans, Michael Blake, Michael de Raadt, Mike Churchward, Peter Bulmer, Petr Skoda, Rajesh Taneja, Rex Lorenzo, Sam Hemelryk, Sam Marshall, Tim Hunt, Watermark Neilsen, Yuliya Bozhko... (plus many more via YouTube and Twitter)

==Meeting chat log==
<div style="height:300px;overflow:auto;">
{| class="nicetable"
|-
| Moodle HQ
| ok we are going live
| 9:01:28 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| can you see us ok?
| 9:01:32 PM
|-
| mary
| yes
| 9:01:47 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Yup
| 9:01:47 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| roger that
| 9:01:49 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| yes
| 9:01:49 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| yes
| 9:01:59 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| yes
| 9:02:04 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Hello all
| 9:02:14 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| I'm lost
| 9:02:17 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| shouldn't get an invatation to the hangout?
| 9:02:31 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| its working here
| 9:02:38 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| juanleyvadelgado@gmail.com
| 9:02:56 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| the youtube stream is really good here
| 9:03:36 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| yeah no lag and clear
| 9:03:55 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| anyone get youtube on ipad?
| 9:04:09 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| and it.crashed...
| 9:04:17 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| is michaeld writing notes?
| 9:04:29 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| trying on android
| 9:04:29 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| hello
| 9:05:13 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hi
| 9:05:14 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| Hello all
| 9:05:14 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| Hello
| 9:05:14 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Hiya
| 9:05:15 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Hello
| 9:05:15 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Hi
| 9:05:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lo
| 9:05:17 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| hi
| 9:05:18 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| hi there
| 9:05:18 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| hello
| 9:05:19 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| hi
| 9:05:20 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| bye
| 9:05:23 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| hi
| 9:05:26 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| hello
| 9:05:29 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| We have some other folks from Moodlerooms watching as well
| 9:05:46 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| hi
| 9:05:48 PM
|-
| mary
| hello!
| 9:05:49 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| hi
| 9:05:56 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| can't get it working again
| 9:06:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Moodle HQ is a jelly-fish. Suddeny it all makes sense.
| 9:07:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| lol
| 9:08:44 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| heh
| 9:08:47 PM
|-
| bmbrands
|
| 9:08:48 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| :D
| 9:08:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Nice bit of recursion in the bottom right there
| 9:08:53 PM
|-
| Mary Evans
| is there no Hangout?
| 9:09:23 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
|
| 9:09:29 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Sorry about that not getting there in the end
| 9:12:05 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Martin: A couple of people asking in comments about how to get invites to the hangout. May be worth re-mentioning #moodledev and here again
| 9:12:28 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| David, hope you got your google hangout email
| 9:14:00 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| no
| 9:14:17 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| that's why I asked for it. I expect MD will add/remove people as needed to keep traffic low
| 9:15:04 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| clearly
| 9:15:07 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| yes
| 9:15:09 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Yes
| 9:15:12 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| yes
| 9:15:12 PM
|-
| mary
| yes
| 9:15:14 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| here
| 9:15:25 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (wow i'm seemingly lagging behind by quite a way)
| 9:15:28 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| waves
| 9:15:36 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| yeah me too as well
| 9:15:39 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Hi Yuliya
| 9:15:49 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Moodle Meetings: Few people asking about where chat is
| 9:16:01 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| ÐŸÑ€Ð¸Ð²ÐµÑ‚ Ð®Ð»Ñ
| 9:16:02 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yep
| 9:16:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (hehe I am responding to stuff which seemingly happened ages ago)
| 9:16:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Dan, reload the you-tube page?
| 9:17:03 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| then i'll miss some!
| 9:17:12 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| David, invited you again
| 9:17:14 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| what email did you use? Got nothing
| 9:17:36 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Have you tried to click on the 'Live' wording on the video?
| 9:17:38 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| just tried it
| 9:17:45 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| what would you like David?
| 9:17:50 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| open2study, the Australian MOOC platform, has crazy numbers of badges for really trivial things.
| 9:18:32 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| LOL
| 9:19:24 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| i'm just seeing simon doing the demo now. How far behind am I?
| 9:19:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| How long was that URL?
| 9:19:28 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| can't wait for openbadges on moodle.org
| 9:19:44 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Yes, helen you should start plannig some
| 9:19:58 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| it just switched to the moodlesite for me 10 secs ago
| 9:20:00 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Dan P: a few seconds assuming am not lagging myself
| 9:20:05 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| thanks
| 9:20:20 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| this is the url: http://openbadgestotara.elearning.catalyst.net.nz/
| 9:20:21 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| for us simon just started talking about site/course badges
| 9:20:28 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| I wonder if MoodleRooms is working on a Common Core -> OpenBadges ecosystem
| 9:20:33 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Rex" looks like it
| 9:20:45 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/OpenBadges_User_Documentation - documentation that has links to our test site with accounts you can use to try out badges
| 9:21:35 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| @aborrow We are not working on that atm
| 9:21:38 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| 66 viewers on Youtube
| 9:21:57 PM
|-
| Jason Fowler
| @@
| 9:22:02 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| 41 in here
| 9:22:14 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| 10 of those are mine
| 9:22:17 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| lol
| 9:22:40 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Is there a login we can use to access the demo site?
| 9:24:37 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Rex: pretty sure it was posted on the forums
| 9:25:00 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| it's in the docs
| 9:25:00 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| looking
| 9:25:01 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Got it
| 9:25:12 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Rex: you can also download and install 2.5
| 9:25:27 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| But you need to setup an open badge API
| 9:26:23 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Just seen the time at the top of Simon's laptop
| 9:26:26 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Oh.. I can just use the default settings I guess
| 9:26:43 PM
|-
| mary
| wow yes Wed 1.25 am
| 9:26:57 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| yeah, 1am here
| 9:26:59 PM
|-
| mary
| UK/Europe has the best time
| 9:27:12 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Thanks Kiwis
| 9:27:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| youtube live streams can be played back again right
| 9:28:21 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Rex: You can create badges without syncing them with Mozilla.
| 9:28:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hope you didn't have to come home from moodle moot party early
| 9:28:36 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| nope, we have another person from out team presenting there
| 9:29:05 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| FYI Stacey Walker @ Catalyst Europe is working on a Persona auth integration for moodle
| 9:30:39 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| does this integrate with oauth for moodle?
| 9:30:52 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| I don't think so
| 9:31:41 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its not really the same
| 9:31:55 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| would be cool to have users compete for a badge
| 9:31:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| bmbrands, like employee of the month stype thing?
| 9:32:26 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Dan P: what do you mean?
| 9:32:44 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @a.nicols: yes why not
| 9:33:02 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| And "Top five contributors" type stuff
| 9:33:31 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| could be useful for reputation management stuff - a bit like our useful moodlers group too
| 9:34:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| great work!
| 9:34:16 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| thanks
| 9:34:32 PM
|-
| mary
| thanks Yuliya
| 9:34:44 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| Do you loose course badges if a course is deleted?
| 9:35:15 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| isnt the badges like a permanent thing? can they be taken away?
| 9:35:43 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| no, you don't, all issued badges belong to users
| 9:35:48 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| does it have to be synced/sent to external site?
| 9:36:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| (regularly)
| 9:36:14 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| no, you don't have to use anything if you don't want them in Mozilla backpack
| 9:36:40 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| suddenly I feel like having a pizza
| 9:36:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Funny that
| 9:37:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| thanks yuliya
| 9:37:20 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| How difficult is it to maintain 2 core themes now? Is the goal to eventually move to bootstrap as the single core theme?
| 9:37:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Yes
| 9:37:36 PM
|-
| Yuliya Bozhko
| Someone asking on Twitter: If a course disappears is the badge revoked? Answer: No, there is no such thing as revocation of badges at the moment. I think Mozilla team is working on it, but currently an issued badge cannot be revoked.
| 9:40:20 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| Is bootstrap being used for the layouts as well? EG: the columns for blocks, etc
| 9:40:22 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| watermark: yes using bootstrap grids
| 9:40:46 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Yuliya, will the badge still be verified as being valid?
| 9:41:03 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Bootstrap can be used for plugin development too.
| 9:41:26 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Thanks everyone for your hard work on bootstrap!
| 9:41:34 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Not in the hangout
| 9:41:40 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| When will the folder name 'bootstrap' be changed to 'bootstrapbase'?
| 9:41:49 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| @bmbrands what do you mean in regards to plugin dev?
| 9:41:57 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Should we bring up the less/sass issue?
| 9:41:58 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| will the core renderers be rewritten to match bootstrap?
| 9:42:02 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| or will they continue to be overridden by bootstrap?
| 9:42:11 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Thanks Martin
| 9:42:16 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-38160
| 9:42:25 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| I'll be presenting about "beyond bootstrap" on the iMoot
| 9:42:38 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Very much like YUI shifter in terms of the new dev workflow
| 9:43:03 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| JAson, the way it was summarised to me: where there are sensible changes, like adding a consistent class name to all cancel buttons, they will be done in core. WHere it is a bit bootstrap-specific then it will not be done in core.
| 9:43:13 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| @Rex has a good point; there is a less vs sass discussion going on there
| 9:43:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| cue questions about what Shifter is ;)
| 9:43:28 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| There is a FireBug addon called FireLess that can be used for debugging Less.
| 9:43:42 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| will the be used for icons?
| 9:44:01 PM
|-
| mary
| who are just out of the picture in the Moodle meeting room?
| 9:44:06 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Jason, that one is insane, I think.
| 9:44:12 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| meaning moving towards the use of css icons?
| 9:44:19 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Bootswatches are worth mentioning too
| 9:44:31 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Yes, what is the timeline for bootswatch import?
| 9:44:50 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| can a plugin that uses bootstrap+less be used with a theme that isn't based on bootstrap?
| 9:44:57 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| variables and css
| 9:45:07 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| very easy to us
| 9:45:20 PM
|-
| mary
| ah thanks
| 9:45:31 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| Aparup Yes, but it wouldn't get the bootstrap styling
| 9:45:38 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| aparup: depends, if you want to use javascript elements no.
| 9:45:55 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| afaik less has to be compiled anyway
| 9:46:06 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| I think you can used Less to generate any css either pre-compiled or client side with JS on the fly.
| 9:46:26 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| ie: new plugin with styles.css using less + moodle site with old theme that isn't based on bootstrap.
| 9:46:58 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| ah thanks Bas
| 9:47:03 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Will the new moodle.org (theme) be based on the new bootstrap theme?
| 9:47:06 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Yes, .less files are not loaded live by the theme. It's more a matter of the development workflow.
| 9:47:08 PM
|-
| Anatai
| both less and scss need to be compiled to css, but less can also be interpreted client side (slower) for testing
| 9:47:09 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| You can do it client side but that's not a good idea for a live site.
| 9:47:22 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| not yet
| 9:48:05 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| No only pizaa
| 9:48:06 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| no screen
| 9:48:06 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| yup
| 9:48:07 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I can see Martin eating Pizza
| 9:48:10 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| got it
| 9:48:10 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| But you can tinker client side with FireLess and then use 'recess' when happy for production.
| 9:48:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Git it now.
| 9:48:13 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| ah yes
| 9:48:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yep
| 9:48:20 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| yes
| 9:48:21 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Bas Is there still more testing to do on Bootstrap in 2.5?
| 9:48:56 PM
|-
| mary
| yes
| 9:48:58 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| I'm not sure that tinkering is necessary when you can set recess to watch all of your less files for changes and automatically recompile your css.
| 9:49:06 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Again, similar to Shifter, as Andrew mentioned earlier. =)
| 9:49:21 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Amy but with FireLess you can debug client side to understand where to make the changes.
| 9:49:50 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| gjbarnard: not too much, but testing with addon plugins would be interesting
| 9:50:11 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| just notices G+ watermark on video
| 9:50:12 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Bas Ta, I can make a start with the course format's I'm responsible for,
| 9:50:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| :D
| 9:51:26 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| this is awesome
| 9:51:32 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| That would be very helpful, I think bootstrap would be very interesting for creating new courseformat too using bootstrap javascript
| 9:51:49 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Bas Interesting concept - what sort of layout do you have in mind?
| 9:52:30 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Just discovered the "Large player" button on the youtube stream (hides youtube chat and makes video larger)
| 9:52:31 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| What sever setup is required for this plugin installation to work over and above what's already required by Moodle?
| 9:52:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| If malicious functions are used, I hope this woudl not get into teh plugins DB!
| 9:52:38 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| install adins: does it warn or could you set it to fail if the plugin isn't MATURITY_STABLE?
| 9:52:52 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| marxjohnson00: shouldn't be anything unusual
| 9:52:59 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (same as repsoitory plugins etc)
| 9:53:06 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| If you delete a plugin, does it now delete the files? Before Moodle would tell you that you need to delete the files yourself
| 9:53:11 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| @timhunt - yes I would like to see some type of warning/notice about installing plugins
| 9:53:11 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| Would this installer find dependencies?
| 9:53:21 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Bas PMme with idea's and I'd be glad to help with a new course format.
| 9:53:22 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| It should, plugins can define dependancies
| 9:53:37 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| Dan P: Does it store them in moodledata dir then?
| 9:53:39 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @gareth: sure, lets focus on this stuff by David
| 9:53:54 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| @jennygray - we do this with core, it seems consistent to provide a similar warning of beta quality or less for plugins
| 9:53:54 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Does this support pulling in packages from a source other than moodle.org ?
| 9:53:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| marxjohnson00: ah, no. You need to allow the webserver to write the plugin directories
| 9:53:58 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| right
| 9:54:02 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| cheers
| 9:54:04 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| its the same process of a normal download and unzip + upgrade moodle
| 9:54:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| watermark.nielsen: good question
| 9:54:19 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| excellent - glad to see the acknowledgement notice, well done!
| 9:54:22 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Cool
| 9:55:08 PM
|-
| Anatai
| I really like the pre-check before install, great touch.
| 9:55:13 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| dependencies show up as little red requirements in upgrade screen
| 9:55:15 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Uninstall also deletes files, right?
| 9:55:19 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| great explanation David
| 9:55:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Marks question^ does it auto get the the dependencies?
| 9:55:28 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Since almost all plugins are on Github it would be great to see some update method or standards when publishing new plugin versions
| 9:55:31 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| You can download github as zip
| 9:55:49 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Moodle.org can pull in from github already
| 9:55:58 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Yes but the developer needs to create a zip, upload to the plugin database etc.
| 9:56:13 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Okay, thanks.
| 9:56:13 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Go to 'add new version' and click on 'add'
| 9:56:14 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| oh nope doesn't auto get dependent plugins afaik.
| 9:56:47 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| bmbrands - no pull in directly from github, by using the 'github' repo when adding a new version
| 9:56:48 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| bmbrands: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=222164
| 9:56:48 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Validator functions? Such as?
| 9:57:06 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Is it easy to write an uninstall script in the plugin to remove custom DB tables?
| 9:57:42 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @dan: Cool
| 9:57:43 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| is there a roll back function?
| 9:58:05 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Very good. Easier to try out new plugins. I don't have to do our whole git workflow to put plugins on our test server.
| 9:58:10 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Gareth J Barnard: it is done automatically by xmldb
| 9:58:11 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| to keep the plugin but downgrade/
| 9:58:12 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Jason, cannot rollback any updates on Moodle.
| 9:58:25 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Dan - Very COOL :D - Thanks.
| 9:58:27 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Downgrading requires the upgrade.php file to reverse what it has done, so no.
| 9:58:39 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| Gareth, or you can use: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Upgrade_API#uninstall.php if anything is not covered
| 9:58:40 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| @Davo Thanks
| 9:59:00 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I did not see the UI screen that gets you to sign in blood that you have made a backup before you start.
| 9:59:03 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| timhunt: there is a tickbox
| 9:59:26 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| bmbrands: i think the solution there is the github repository for uploading to Plugins directory. if its just to try/test perhaps there could be an alternative url that can be entered to fetch a zip from.
| 9:59:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Good
| 9:59:36 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| although it might not be there from the plugins directory route atm
| 9:59:39 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| I can see that going wrong just a bit too often ....
| 10:00:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| ^ wahey
| 10:00:31 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| That would be nice, but terrifying
| 10:00:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hehe
| 10:00:40 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Yes, could get annoying having updates weekly
| 10:00:45 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| I'd need to write a lot of unit tests before I was comfortable doing that
| 10:00:55 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Cool stuff David
| 10:01:01 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| There can be a contact developer button about problems. Or "Send a crash report", lol.
| 10:01:10 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Thanks David
| 10:01:23 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| thanks. Apu should get half of the credit for sure, this was a real team project.
| 10:01:38 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| I have made a "microsoft clippy" block for that, still hoping it will be core one day
| 10:01:45 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| Sorry guys, just learned 10 mins ago that I am supposed to present something... do not have mic and did not have chance to prepare
| 10:01:50 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Martin, just demo it!
| 10:02:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| MArtin: ^
| 10:02:09 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| I can comment here though
| 10:02:22 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| marTIN: ^^
| 10:02:25 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| use QA site
| 10:02:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (or someting on integration)
| 10:02:45 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It may also be worth demoing the collapsed editor
| 10:02:45 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hehe
| 10:03:27 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| try chat
| 10:03:43 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Or quiz
| 10:03:53 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| for 2.6 will there be a focus on important fields showing not the whole section?
| 10:04:31 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Hmm.. yeah something important, but not required
| 10:04:52 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| right
| 10:05:12 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Oh, I like the collapsed editor
| 10:05:19 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Demo adding a new Multiple Choice question
| 10:05:22 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| the idea is to initially have all the fields that are most commonly used
| 10:05:25 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| shown
| 10:05:27 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| The heuristic is: Forms with more than 2 sections: any section after the first is collapsed by default.
| 10:05:35 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| then i expand what I need to add
| 10:05:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| ah - some in there too
| 10:05:37 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| jennygray: there is warning for anything lower than MATURITY_STABLE
| 10:05:44 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Right, Jason.
| 10:05:47 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Jason Hardin: Fred hsa been reworking a lot of the forms in addition to the other work
| 10:05:58 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| It is more than that Dan
| 10:06:16 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| I love the editor toggle
| 10:06:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Easy to override the default.
| 10:06:19 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| If there were an api like advanced
| 10:06:22 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| any thought to add that new tinymce option for comments?
| 10:06:24 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| that a dev can tag a fields as "initial" or "important"
| 10:06:39 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Jason Hardin: I don't see it happening any time soon
| 10:06:51 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Jason, we already have show advanced.
| 10:06:57 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Jason, in the assignment plugin, the submission type section is made to be opened by default, but none of those options are required. So it is possible to define what sections to leave open
| 10:07:03 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| vs collapsed
| 10:07:06 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| there is only so much we can add onto the existing forms library, this is part of the way forward
| 10:07:15 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| @tim yeah i know that but we dont' have important or initial as a concept
| 10:07:21 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| advanced is used to hide settings
| 10:07:34 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Oh hurrah! policy bugs
| 10:07:34 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Dan, any followup on the idea of replacing quickforms?
| 10:07:36 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| this would be used to show inputs
| 10:07:40 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Jason, re-arrange your form to move the important stuff to the top.
| 10:07:42 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL/component/12733
| 10:07:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://tracker.moodle.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MDL%20AND%20component%20%3D%20Policy%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
| 10:08:06 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thank Colin Chambers for the collapsed editor
| 10:08:10 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| @tim that defeats the purpose of grouping fields by identifiable names
| 10:08:11 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| Interesting, but it's not toggling between HTML raw and wysiwyg, both are wysiwyg...
| 10:08:21 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| So to get to HTML I have to show the editor and then select HTML view... I have more steps than before...
| 10:08:42 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| if only politicians had bugs.
| 10:08:45 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @amy: would be nice to have a raw tab for that
| 10:09:02 PM
|-
| Ruslan Kabalin
| my pleasure
| 10:09:18 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| hello
| 10:09:50 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| can I just type?
| 10:09:58 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| lol
| 10:10:14 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Basically in 2.5 all course listings will go through renderer. I made screenshots https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytgtceoahiw5m6u/2tFpM389pW#/
| 10:10:36 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Why aren't they using the QA site?
| 10:11:13 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| Rex, who are they?
| 10:11:25 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| We still might correct some CSS things there
| 10:12:00 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| Great to have images there, they could be used to create icon buttons for mobile
| 10:12:00 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| By the way, screenshots are made using https://github.com/marinaglancy/moodle-tool_behatui
| 10:12:34 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| How does that look with 2000 courses?
| 10:12:51 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| there are settings that limit the number of courses per page
| 10:13:06 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @tim: isn't the limit set to 200 ?
| 10:13:11 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| looks like I'm going to have to catch up with the rest of this later - time for the school run; see you all later
| 10:13:20 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No. The OU has many courses.
| 10:13:22 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| ciao Davo
| 10:13:30 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| more about settings: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Courses_lists_upgrade_to_2.5
| 10:14:15 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Where are the developer docs for what might break?
| 10:14:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Ah!
| 10:14:19 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thanks.
| 10:14:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hehe
| 10:15:17 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| There is a new JS side to it which hasn't yet landed
| 10:15:26 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| unfortunately it was not possible to keep old css because it was different everywhere
| 10:15:28 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| no, that's it. thanks
| 10:15:51 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| there is a bit of lag here I think Martin (you keep giving up on us saying stuff)
| 10:16:09 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Yup - it lets you drill down, and loads the course information on the page
| 10:16:22 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Hi!
| 10:17:09 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| aergh!
| 10:17:18 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Hi Petr
| 10:17:20 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| i didn't know he was moving in that close!
| 10:17:32 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| I think he's trying to look scary
| 10:17:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It's the light that makes it particularly scary
| 10:18:24 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| presumably we might move up to jquery 2.x when Moodle decides to drop support for older IE versions though?
| 10:19:17 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/jQuery
| 10:19:37 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| I thought only IE 9+ was supported?
| 10:19:48 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| Prototype added for 2.6?
| 10:19:57 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| why is jQuery worried about IE 6?
| 10:19:59 PM
|-
| Anatai
| currently IE 8+ supported
| 10:20:05 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Jason Hardin, We support IE8
| 10:20:06 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| FYI YUI supports back to IE6
| 10:20:17 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| sigh
| 10:20:33 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| Mootools for 2.7 ?
| 10:20:34 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Like Petr says, we're not intentionally breaking IE support
| 10:20:41 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| Dojo for 2.8?
| 10:20:42 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| @Eloy, ha ha
| 10:20:53 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| jennygray, Not necessarily, but maybe. Althoughwe'll drop support for IE8 soon, we'll still try our best to make things work
| 10:20:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Hopefully the recent changes to use Shifter will help there too
| 10:21:15 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| OU still supporting IE7 in the "try our best" mode
| 10:21:18 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| I can if you want
| 10:21:42 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| YUI resets/normalizr
| 10:21:43 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| gmail addres andrew?
| 10:21:50 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Let Andrew talk
| 10:21:50 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| andrewrn@gmail.com
| 10:21:55 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| though Petr has covered most of it
| 10:22:09 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It will help us to write better API docs for our JS, and unit tests
| 10:22:39 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| nice coer of it too
| 10:22:43 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| *cover
| 10:22:47 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Andrew, what is that good YUI theatre talk about YUI modules?
| 10:22:52 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| It is worth it!
| 10:23:16 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| ermm...
| 10:23:22 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| The one from Ubuntu One?
| 10:23:36 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Foxxtrot
| 10:23:40 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| yes
| 10:24:00 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Moodle 2.5: 'we're sick of the wussy windows devs' :P
| 10:24:01 PM
|-
| mary
| great job tweeting by tsala
| 10:24:07 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| yes we can
| 10:24:09 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Shifter works fine on Windows
| 10:24:14 PM
|-
| Amy Groshek
| @Andrew love the haircut. Very nice.
| 10:24:14 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Wow, cut your hair.
| 10:24:15 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| hairloss!
| 10:24:16 PM
|-
| Mike Churchward
| Holy crap! New man!
| 10:24:27 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Wowâ€¦ Mod Andrew. =)
| 10:24:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| If anyone wants to encorage Andrew's hair loss: http://www.justgiving.com/andrewnicols
| 10:24:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lol, the most commented on thing so far this meeting
| 10:24:57 PM
|-
| mary
| I liked the poneytail! But understand the reasons for haircut
| 10:25:05 PM
|-
| mary
| lol
| 10:25:09 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| linting - yay!
| 10:26:08 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| (
| 10:26:12 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| I learned a lot from the lint output.
| 10:26:21 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| I used to understand him better with the long hair, uhm...
| 10:26:30 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Well, you just add Y.log statements to you code for development.
| 10:26:57 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Then, they don't appear in the finished code for people not in dev debug mode.
| 10:27:09 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| Eloy: you need mod_rmaccent
| 10:27:30 PM
|-
| Petr Škoda
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/jQuery is the jQuery docs page
| 10:27:32 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| What shampoo do you use?
| 10:27:34 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Andrew's so dreamy!
| 10:27:48 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| wow, thats a good colour in your face now!
| 10:28:00 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| LOL
| 10:28:08 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| I keep thinking I am watching a shampoo commercial on youtube
| 10:28:15 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I can see ruslan trying to get in the picture
| 10:28:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| with his arms
| 10:28:22 PM
|-
| mary
| lol
| 10:28:23 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/YUI https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Javascript/Shifter
| 10:28:48 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Get LANCs to change the paint colour!
| 10:28:51 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| And https://docs.moodle.org/dev/YUI/Modules is in progress
| 10:28:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its gone dark
| 10:29:19 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Acceptance_testing
| 10:30:56 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Are you hearing David ok?
| 10:31:34 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yep
| 10:31:36 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| yes
| 10:31:42 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| yep
| 10:31:43 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| best english in the season!
| 10:31:43 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| yes
| 10:31:44 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (I am used to his spanish accent )
| 10:31:48 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| season, or session?
| 10:31:55 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| year*
| 10:32:01 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
|
| 10:32:02 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| lol
| 10:32:05 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Martin Dougiamas, Where were you suggesting I add the links to the new docs?
| 10:32:24 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| David sounds great!
| 10:32:45 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| The April 2013 dev meeting page
| 10:32:46 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| will do
| 10:32:53 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Thanks!
| 10:33:05 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| could this be used to create performance tests too? this looks easier than doing jmeter scripts.
| 10:33:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| bmbrands: no
| 10:33:44 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| It wouldn't make sense to time the tests as a performance indicator?
| 10:34:04 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (not out of the box, I don't think.. doubting myself now)
| 10:34:06 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| not really (there are some "pauses" here and there), and will evolve along the time/depend of the product used.
| 10:34:13 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Yes it can
| 10:34:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| rexlorenzo@gmail.com: they are doing pauses and all kinds of things
| 10:34:21 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its not a very reliable way to do it
| 10:34:28 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Just a note to developers: MDK (Fred's plugin) will set behat up for you.
| 10:35:07 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| No, sure. But I think with lots and lots of tests the pauses will sort of even out.
| 10:35:08 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| At least it would detect really stupid mistakes.
| 10:35:23 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| I found another implementation recently - it is useful to run the same test across all/some themes and make screenshots
| 10:35:29 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Whoops, when I say plugin, I mean script. It is not a moodle plugin.
| 10:35:52 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Post your code again marina.
| 10:35:55 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| It's a cool idea
| 10:36:12 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| https://github.com/marinaglancy/moodle-tool_behatui
| 10:36:17 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| (Y)
| 10:36:34 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| @marina: coool
| 10:36:49 PM
|-
| Marina Glancy
| I added there a big test for course listings, I'm going to suggest it for theme developers in my course listings doc
| 10:36:57 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| it can be used to cover some "key" vualizations.
| 10:37:05 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| *visualizations.
| 10:37:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| If you have moodle 2.5, you can see the list of steps definitons in: admin/tool/behat/index.php
| 10:37:24 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| (aka the vocabulary)
| 10:38:07 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| Given Marina submits moodle-tool_behatui to Moodle plugins, Then I can automatically install with Aparup's install button
| 10:38:37 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| behat is not using the mink plugin to allow for other test servers other than selenium?
| 10:39:38 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| yes
| 10:39:43 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| in fact I want to try it against others soon (faster and headless with JS support)
| 10:40:21 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| Hrm... that can help speed up tests though. Using a headless browser, etc
| 10:40:42 PM
|-
| bmbrands
| have to leave, thanks all
| 10:40:52 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| it does help but has issues
| 10:41:03 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| not all headless support the same funcitonality as selenium
| 10:41:12 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| for non-js, non-corss-browser ones it already uses headless afaik)
| 10:41:16 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| selenium seems to be the best supported though
| 10:41:21 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| nah
| 10:41:25 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| the others have "issues"
| 10:41:27 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| lol, selenium has too
| 10:41:34 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Mark: yes. The problem is real useers don't use javascript-less browsers
| 10:41:38 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Thanks Bas!
| 10:41:44 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| @eloy, true, but you can get the server to run
| 10:41:49 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| i have not gotten others to run onlinux and mac
| 10:42:01 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| only one or the other
| 10:42:06 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Oh, are you guys also running behats tests for accessibility? The idea about javascript browsers made me think about it.
| 10:42:18 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| well, I've tried zombie and it rocks
| 10:42:26 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| i tried zombie and it failed
| 10:42:36 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| for the purposes I'm thinking about.
| 10:42:36 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| *javascript-less
| 10:42:41 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| rexlorenzo@gmail.com: an interesting side effect of behat tests is that I think it helps us with accessibility
| 10:42:50 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| @poltawski: not all tests require JS though - if I just want to confirm that some text appears after hitting a button, I don't need anything special
| 10:43:13 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| yeah when Eloy means javascript less it is that the testing software doesn't need aJS to run the tests
| 10:43:14 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| not that there is no js testing
| 10:43:18 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| because we spot things like multiple links with the same meaning
| 10:43:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| grr
| 10:43:24 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| different meaning
| 10:43:28 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| same heading, different meaning
| 10:43:43 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| @watermark.nielsen its already supported with headless browser, if itsnnot got javascript requirement
| 10:43:46 PM
|-
| Mark Nielsen
| ah
| 10:43:57 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| if you want accessibility testing there is a fireeyes plugin that works pretty well it is free
| 10:43:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| there is an @javascript tag for javascript depdendent tests
| 10:44:09 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| http://www.deque.com/deque-fireeyes
| 10:44:10 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| it si produced by the consulting company Moodlerooms hired to review Moodle
| 10:44:20 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| and free to use as long as you are not providing consulting services around it
| 10:44:36 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| he
| 10:44:42 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| meeting interruptus?
| 10:45:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| thats his screen isn't it
| 10:45:16 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| keep commentating!
| 10:45:22 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| music!
| 10:45:28 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| brasil!
| 10:45:32 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Ijust saw his terminal
| 10:45:52 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| seeing terminal snow
| 10:46:11 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Yip I can see it
| 10:46:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its threre now
| 10:46:16 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| *now
| 10:46:19 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| yes
| 10:46:20 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| finally a command line interface!
| 10:46:23 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| its just that its at top of screen
| 10:46:23 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| DONT TYPE the ROOT's PASSWORD NOW!
| 10:46:25 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| lol
| 10:46:26 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Martin: Click on his window at the bottom. It's based on who is talking most
| 10:46:27 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| get him to press enter
| 10:46:27 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| gone
| 10:46:29 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| heh
| 10:46:40 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| wfm ;)
| 10:46:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| I see him!
| 10:47:05 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| its there now
| 10:47:06 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| here we go
| 10:47:13 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| look you guys look!
| 10:47:23 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| it's boring... although last time i was 80 mins looking for them to complete.
| 10:48:01 PM
|-
| Helen Foster
| wow, how cool is that!
| 10:48:01 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lol
| 10:48:01 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| david is cheating
| 10:48:28 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hes just doing it quickly
| 10:48:35 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| it's a recorded video! Fake!
| 10:48:42 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
|
| 10:48:51 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| eh, have you seen the setType warning, Dan?
| 10:49:07 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| He has a Raspberry Pi controlled mouse ;)
| 10:49:09 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| suspects trained monkeys
| 10:49:10 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yes!
| 10:49:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| errors not detected
| 10:49:25 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Does this take screenshots at any points for making sure a page is rendered correctly?
| 10:49:29 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| can you run just the plugin tests?
| 10:49:36 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| yeah, we should have them caught already, grrr
| 10:49:38 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Such as: this page looks great in Chrome and FF but renders incorrectly in IE8?
| 10:49:46 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| Jason Hardin: you can run by tag
| 10:49:49 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| awesome
| 10:49:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| jfilip: yes
| 10:49:56 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| by tag or by name (part of the description)
| 10:50:07 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Cool, thanks.
| 10:50:08 PM
|-
| Jason Hardin
| nice
| 10:50:20 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Justin, that's exactly what Marinas behatui thing does
| 10:50:25 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Are you guys running also running selenium in windows to test IE? How many different environments are you running selenium or planning to?
| 10:50:34 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| 2.6 testing won't be QA testing anymore but "picture testing" instead, lol.
| 10:51:15 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| I'll take a look at it, thanks for the info.
| 10:51:41 PM
|-
| Moodle HQ
| Sauce labs, for now
| 10:52:11 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Which service?
| 10:52:14 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://saucelabs.com/
| 10:52:24 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| settype again
| 10:52:50 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| https://saucelabs.com/u/moodle
| 10:52:58 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| ^ cool
| 10:53:00 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| we need to catch all those notices/warnings/debuggins ASAP
| 10:53:34 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Very cool stuff.
| 10:53:40 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| awesome stuff, david!
| 10:53:56 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| now everyone else needs to start writing tests
| 10:54:14 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| i want to
| 10:54:20 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| (steam was coming out of davids ears when I was in perth)
| 10:54:27 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Nice presentations
| 10:54:58 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| slides
| 10:55:10 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| wasn't there a pending backport issue for tests to 2.4 ?
| 10:55:12 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| (evil)
| 10:55:18 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| (assign ones)
| 10:55:28 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yup
| 10:55:31 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| aren't they waiting on Damyon
| 10:56:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| yup: MDL-37632
| 10:56:31 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37632 - Backport unit tests for mod/assign/lib.php and mod/assign/lib.php and mod/assign/upgradelib.php to 24
| 10:56:31 PM
|-V: 0, W: 3, Type: Improvement, Assignee: Damyon Wiese, Priority: Minor, Status: Reopened
| Andrew Nicols
| yay people using the new drag/drop of help
| 10:59:07 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| lol
| 11:00:11 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| profile description from mdk
| 11:00:26 PM
|-
| Davo Smith
| popped back just in time
| 11:04:14 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Will MDL-37490 make it into M2.5?
| 11:04:26 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-37490 - Display assignment due date on course page.
| 11:04:27 PM
|-V: 4, W: 7, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Gareth J Barnard, Priority: Minor, Status: Waiting for integration review
| Ankit Agarwal
| yes
| 11:05:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Seeing it on youtube now
| 11:05:21 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| yes
| 11:05:24 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| yes
| 11:05:27 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Yes
| 11:05:33 PM
|-
| sbourget
| yes
| 11:05:36 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| another perfect english speaker, yay!
| 11:06:05 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| the orange looks "too much" for me, lol.
| 11:09:00 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| No such thing as too much orange.
| 11:09:12 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| will it support custom backgrounds?
| 11:09:37 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| typical mobile developer - having even desktop windows resized to 200 x 300 px
| 11:09:53 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| heh
| 11:10:04 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| Yes you can change backgrounds and everything via CSS
| 11:12:24 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| there is a new setting in Moodle 2.5 that lets you specify the URL to a CSS file
| 11:12:44 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| super
| 11:12:53 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| And the app will get this and use it
| 11:12:57 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Same goes for language customisations
| 11:13:18 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
|
| 11:13:23 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| And all this is cached in the app
| 11:13:28 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| well done1
| 11:14:03 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| It's a nice app - well done Juan
| 11:14:17 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| nice! (browser appears black sometimes in youtube)
| 11:14:49 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Is the push notifications something similar to what Moodlerooms is proposing for their alert system in here? https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=223812
| 11:14:59 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| How can we sent push notifications? Does it use the messaging api?
| 11:15:28 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| More open. Less free
| 11:15:29 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| Haha oh dear
| 11:15:36 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| lets not get into that now
| 11:15:40 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| rexlorenzo@gmail.com: the notification using messaging system
| 11:15:43 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| Rex, yes messaging output plugins
| 11:15:46 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| "we are legion"
| 11:15:49 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| We have a server called AirNotifier that will recieve messages from Moodle
| 11:16:17 PM
|-
| maberdour
| Holy crap, been trying out different jabber settings for an hour. Made it in. Thanks @anatai
| 11:16:18 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| via Message API
| 11:16:21 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| jabber is sooo simple, lol.
| 11:16:33 PM
|-
| Martin Dougiamas
| and send it to Apple/Google and then to your phone
| 11:16:35 PM
|-
| Anatai
| @maberdour you're welcome
| 11:16:38 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| super
| 11:16:51 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| exciting
| 11:16:55 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| amazing
| 11:16:57 PM
|-
| sam marshall
| (yeah, how come irc works much better than jabber?
| 11:16:58 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Thank you
| 11:17:05 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| yes the notifications i've received were cool Jerome
| 11:17:08 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| https://docs.moodle.org/24/en/Moodle_Mobile_app
| 11:17:19 PM
|-
| Juan Leyva
| https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Moodle_Mobile
| 11:17:19 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| welcom, G
| 11:17:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| We've lost camear on youtube
| 11:17:22 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Got your camera now
| 11:17:44 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| any updates on MDL-36350 / https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Survey_2_module - it seems to keep getting pushed back - possible GSOC project?
| 11:18:30 PM
|-
| Moodle Bot
| https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36350 - Implement Survey 2 module
| 11:18:30 PM
|-V: 12, W: 18, Type: New Feature, Assignee: Daniele Cordella, Priority: Major, Status: Open
| Moodle HQ
| AFAIK Daniele stil on it
| 11:19:10 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| afaik Danielle is back, hard working on it, Anthony.
| 11:19:13 PM
|-
| Anthony Borrow
| good news!
| 11:19:21 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| lag is tricky
| 11:19:54 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| hi GSOC students watching!
| 11:19:58 PM
|-
| marxjohnson00
| 1
| 11:20:05 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| and Twitter hasn't been great for it
| 11:20:06 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Brilliant
| 11:20:07 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| this is way way better
| 11:20:08 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| 0.5
| 11:20:08 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Will this live stream be saved? +1
| 11:20:09 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| +1 though
| 11:20:09 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| 1
| 11:20:11 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Video and audio is good.
| 11:20:11 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| 1
| 11:20:13 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Pretty good
| 11:20:13 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Better than bbb
| 11:20:17 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| 0.2
| 11:20:17 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| 1
| 11:20:18 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Harder to see who is in the meeting and chat
| 11:20:20 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| Could do with the stream running a bit for 15 minutes before hand to give people a chance to get themselves sorted
| 11:20:24 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| It worked with very little effort.
| 11:20:35 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| 1
| 11:20:38 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Yes. Starting the stream earlier woudlbe good.
| 11:20:40 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| google rocks!
| 11:20:42 PM
|-
| Jenny Gray
| twitter has been surprisingly quiet.
| 11:20:42 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
|
| 11:20:43 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| BBB is being used at iMoot 2013.
| 11:20:56 PM
|-
| Andrew Nicols
| thanks
| 11:21:10 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| too many places to check for feedback
| 11:21:11 PM
|-
| Gareth J Barnard
| Thank you all
| 11:21:26 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| devs rocks! C'mon!
| 11:21:35 PM
|-
| Tim Hunt
| Thanks.
| 11:21:36 PM
|-
| Anatai
| thanks
| 11:21:38 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| thanks
| 11:21:40 PM
|-
| Ankit Agarwal
| Cya all
| 11:21:42 PM
|-
| Justin Filip
| Thanks
| 11:21:42 PM
|-
| mary
| thanks
| 11:21:44 PM
|-
| Rex Lorenzo
| Thanks.
| 11:21:44 PM
|-
| Sam Hemelryk
| Cool, thanks guys
| 11:21:45 PM
|-
| Mark Nelson
| Ciao.
| 11:21:49 PM
|-
| Dan Poltawski
| ciao
| 11:21:49 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| (clap)
| 11:21:50 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| +1 mojito
| 11:21:54 PM
|-
| Rossiani Wijaya
| cya
| 11:22:01 PM
|-
| Rajesh Taneja
| cya
| 11:22:01 PM
|-
| David Mudrák
| did I hear "meeting rums?"
| 11:22:07 PM
|-
| Aparup Banerjee
| thanks! good night! moodle out yo
| 11:22:14 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| did i hear "mojito" ?
| 11:22:16 PM
|-
| Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)
| lol
| 11:22:20 PM
|}